Do you think Schuab would be leading his team to .500 ball or a winning record in his 1st or 2nd season? Simple question....
extending carr didn't cost them two 2s; whether he was released in february 2006 or february 2007, they were still going to have to use resources to acquire a replacement. neglible. [/QUOTE]It also cost them the chance to draft 3 QB's that most expect to be better prospects than Schaub. I don't think anyone would give a #1 for Schuab.[/QUOTE] as stated, there's enough evidence to suggest, carr or no carr, kubiak was never going to draft one of those 3 QBs (case in point: post-carr, he could have drafted brady quinn this year). and not doing so opened the door for mario williams. now, to answer your question... mistake? as long as the thinking behind the decision was sound and reasonable, you can't label what are more or less unpredictable results a "mistake." michael bourn may or may not be the CF/lead-off solution the astros so desperately need; if he's not, that won't recast the thought-process behind acquiring him a "mistake."
They should have known. They get paid to know. I knew and I was right. The same goes for others here. At the end of the day they were still wrong. And they were wrong. What ample reason...Carr hadn't shown anything while here, besides that he could take a lick. Great picks. He still blew it by sticking with Carr. Can't stabilize what sucks....
Wait a minute--you said, "imagine Carr playing at a Schaub/Rosenfels level AND adding two Demeco Ryans-type players to the roster". Well, Demeco being the 2nd rounder from last year, are you not speaking of the 2nd rounder we would have had this year (ie, "now")? We've been over this a million times. With the information I had at the time I probably still favor the choice they would make. In hindsight, I was wrong. It's not revisionist history, it's hindsight. That's not a good way to judge a decision; and as such I'm not here criticizing the draft. But to say Carr sucked is simply hindsight--it seems even Kubiak re-evaluated David Carr at some point during the 2006 season. After all, he ate the signing bonus and traded two 2nd-rounders away just to replace him. The second round has more great, impactful players than the third and fourth rounds, but it's no more of a "sure thing" than the first round, is it? Ric, you know far more about this than I. How many, on average, 2nd rounders become solid starters? How many become Demeco Ryans? How many are ho-hum? I'm asking because I admittedly assumed that not every 2nd-rounder is Demeco (of course, I think of him as a bit more than a solid starter). I think that's a reasonable assumption, but I'll eat my crow if I'm wrong (again).
They chose to pass on 3 potential franchise QB's because they believed in Carr. They ****ed up. They could have just picked a QB and ran with it. They gave up two #2's because they were stuck in a bind at that point. I can't believe you are trying to make it seem like the Carr decision had such little impact. Still cost you something, correct? Didn't McNair tell VY's mom we woulda picked your son if we didn't have a QB? I think there is enough evidence to suggest they didn't draft one because they felt they already had their man. Of course you can. Your thought process was wrong and you made the wrong decision..hence mistake. That is quite different from a starting QB playing like garbage for your teams for years before you decide to extend him.....
I lived in Atlanta and most Falcons fans I know didn't think the team would win with Schuab. They think they raped us for two #2 picks, and they still do...especially everytime he gets knocked out of a game.
That's funny. I've frequented quite a few Falcons boards this season, and the consensus seems to be that they'd love to have him back if they could go back in time, and that the Texans made a good deal.
Diff strokes for diff folks. I'm sure there are a multitude of opinions there just like on this board. But after every game Schuab gets knocked out I have received at least 20 e-mails....
As mentioned in another thread (or maybe this thread, they're all running together), ANY QB would have missed time after that cheap shot Schaub had laid on him in San Diego. And what other QB besides Brett Favre would play with a separated shoulder? Schaub probably would have played if we were still in the hunt for the playoffs.
maybe they should start paying you... this is why i keep getting sucked back into carr threads - so after the 2004 season, when very nearly every texan fan thought the team was poised to make a playoff run the following year, you were the lone voice screaming for them to replace the sucky third-year QB who had just dropped 3,500 yards, 16 TDs, a 61% completion rate, an average per attempt of 8 yds, and an 83.5 rating on us? yes, he sucked in 2005. i defy you to name a member of that team that didn't suck that year. given a reasonable ascent through his first three years, it was understandable for kubiak, et al, to guess 2005 was the abberation, not the new norm. carr has always had the physical tools; the mental aspect is harder to judge. it's not a talent you can turn on and off. he's an excellent talent evaluator. if he saw something in carr, i have more faith in him than i do you.
People seem to be unfairly running past this, even though you repeat it often. It has to be considered. Especially the first half of '04--Carr had a great first half in '04. Then Capers changed the game plan and screwed it all up (iirc). However, even after '04, I *do* indeed remember people criticizing David Carr. I was right there, calling their takes ridiculous. No way an average could have that kind of foresight. But in the end, accidental or not, the critics were right.
Maybe they should, and the other half of the folks in the city that said Carr was garbage. Isn't that the most important aspect for a QB? And yes, I remember folks complaining that Carr didn't have that in the 2004 season as well. 2005 was just further proof. Bottom line....by the time that 06 draft rolled around I don't see how Carr was worth extending. The team agreed with me but it took them another year to realize it....somehow.... That's fine. Kubiak has forgotten more football than I will ever know. He was still wrong about Carr and just because you are great at evaluating talent doesn't mean you don't make mistakes. They made one with David. They admitted it one year later by getting rid of him. I have no clue why you are still defending their decision. They ****ed up...it's ok....
we're speaking of the team trying to chart a course of action, and adding three top 50-ish picks at positions other than QB had to look better than using one (or both) on a replacement - make sense? so... what are you even arguing? and wrong. then. the people jumping on carr are cast from the same lot of those jumping on mario. the guy has 9.5 sacks and i STILL see people dismissing him. it's the culture... yes, he was terrible in 2005; yes, 2006 wasn't appeciably better. but after 2004? but here's the thing: they're giving up their chance to unearth the next demeco ryans, doubly frustrating given their knack for player evaluation. is taking that chance and failing better than not taking the chance at all? look at the 2006 second round: http://www.footballdb.com/draft.html?yr=2006&rnd=2 ryans, white, mcneill, jennings, hester, jones-drew - and those are just the names jumping out at me. given the texans have routinely picked in the draft's top 10, you're passing on potentially top 40 talent.
Jerome Mathis. He also saw something in Schaub, but you've been willing to say you don't think all that highly of him, no?
Anyway, back to Vince, he is not lacking in any of the physical tools to be successful and he uses these physical talents well. However, the complexities of NFL defenses have confirmed the weakness between his ears first exposed by his low Wunderlich score.
they're not unfairly running past it; they're choosing to ignore it and paint carr's five years with a "suck" brush instead - it's easier (coughlaziercough). carr's 1st 7 games in '04: 138/210 (66%); 1,917 yds (9.1/att); 9/5; 97.1. on a 16-game pace: 4,382 yds; 21/11. the texans had a brutal second half schedule and he tailed off over the next 7 before putting it back together to close out the year (prior to the cleveland game). he still finished with terrific #s given his experience-level and the quality of the team. anyone who thought at that moment he was a bust was either waking up from a coma indunced by stupidity, or seething from the browns' game that closed out the year. they're the same people who cried about mario williams and will now go in search of a new whipping boy. they are, to be frank, twats.
