I'm getting excited about T-Mo!

I think it's unfair to say that any guy so fresh out of college would never have a starting position at the 3 for the rockets. the guy has shown talent and is a solid roleplayer.

but most importantly, Rudy gives him minutes and a few starts.

none of us really know his abilities and what he's been doing in practice, the rocks staff does... and tmo's getting more and more time in game. that's evidence enough it's possible

 

and drewdog,

it doesn't matter what tmo has proven to you or me,

just what he's proven to rudy and gang

 

The best thing about this thread is that we are not arguing on when or how to trade/release Morris. Over the past few games, we've seen that TMo has NBA level abilities and deserves a longer chance at developing those skills. I don't think he will ever develop into an NBA level starter, but, we don't necessarily need him to fulfill this position. If he could play some sort of role similar to Mario Elie, then we got a steal. Ultimately, all that we need from TMo is to play consistently good (not great) when he is in and don't cause a stink on the bench (a la Elie) when you feel that you deserve more playing time.

The current is as dark as can be, but the future looks real bright and I think TMo could be an important piece of the puzzle.

 

You know...

...why is it that I think people with the nicknames "fredterp" and "tmo" are lacking objectivity on the issue?

Sheer brilliance.

Haywood? Finley?

Haywood hasn't proven anything yet. He's looked halfway-mediocre on a bad team.

Finley didn't have a great senior season, but:

#1 The Wisconsin team he was on was decidedly not as good as Morris' Maryland team.

#2 Moreover, his stats improved in every area except shooting %, and he still managed 20 points per game.

#3 Finley averaged 15 points a game his first year in the NBA and shot .476% from the field. How well is Morris shooting again?

I just love the way you throw out two names and think you've made a case. You can always find exceptiosn to the rule... but when players decline their senior season... there's often a reason for it.

Morris' stats suck and he looks lost on the court. He doesn't even look like the solid defender that he was reputed to be. He stayed in college for 4 years. I'm not sure how much more he's going to develop.

Incidentally, Morris was projected to be a top 5 pick after his *sophomore* season... that was when Francis was playing with him in the back court. By his junior season, he was already declining in the eyes of scouts.

 

I was wondering that too. i thought he was the all-star for dallas, but when i went to watch him in a game, he wasn't even listed as playing...

 

I think T Mo just isn't cutting turkey.

 

Haven, your quote:

"Tmo sucked his senior year of college. He isn't going to miraculously emerge as a good player. His senior year, he shot under 30% from the college 3 pt line. That's beyond atrocious."

NOT TRUE that Terence sucked his senior year! I guess that's why the Rockets traded a #1 draft choice for a guy who sucked his senior year! Maybe the Rockets should hire you as a scout. We got more objectivity than you will ever have! Next time you state stats, know what you're posting about. You show your ignorance when stating ONE college stat for ONE year (a 3 point 29%) Against the weak sisters on the Maryland schedule, Morris elected to pass to teammates instead of padding his stats, a well known fact. Try researching all the stats. See the whole picture, basketball is made up of many stats not one. Terence Morris was in the top echelon of many of the ACC leaders in many categories. Maybe Rudy and the Rockets would like to see your scouting report and your resume. FREDTERP

 

Your argument is circular. If Morris were perceived to be so talented, then why would all those other teams pass on him? The Rockets were, after all, able to take him in the 2nd round.

Which is more likely... that the Rockets are wrong... or that every other team in the NBA is?

By your own standards, you've ruined your case.

 

Haven, once again maybe you should be on the Rocket payroll since you know more than Rocket management. Send that resume in. You really never addressed your quote!! I'll repeat it for you.

"Tmo sucked his senior year of college. He isn't going to miraculously emerge as a good player. His senior year, he shot under 30% from the college 3 pt line. That's beyond atrocious."

Try taking a reading course, you mentioned his senior year performance. Your argument is circular. FREDTERP

 

I think t-mo can be a very good 6 man but I would not start him over glen rice or eddie at the 3 both can do more on offense I see Eddie as a 3 when he devolps a post game I dont think to many teams will be able to match up with him. as the 4 he will be at a disadvantage for a few years. if cato can lose some wait and block shots like he did in first year with rockets front line will be set
cato /collier/
griffen/rice
taylor/morris
francis / norris
mobley/torres

I think we should try to trade our pick and kenny for a veteren player like k malone or R lewis or G hill who is my first choice try to win now

 

Answers below

Originally posted by haven
"You know...

...why is it that I think people with the nicknames "fredterp" and "tmo" are lacking objectivity on the issue?

Sheer brilliance."

---I have stated here and elsewhere that I am not an objective observer. However, neither are you. You have had nothing but negative things to say about Tmo, even though Tmo has done some things well. Most people (myself included) have had negative AND positive things to say about Tmo. You have not.

"Haywood? Finley?

Haywood hasn't proven anything yet. He's looked halfway-mediocre on a bad team."

---Haywood is among the top rebounding and shotblocking rookies. And last time I checked, a 'bad team' wasn't one that was playoff-bound, which the wizards, even with their injuries, probably are.

"Finley didn't have a great senior season, but:

#1 The Wisconsin team he was on was decidedly not as good as Morris' Maryland team."

---This could work in either player's favor. Some players fluorish when they have to do it all themselves (see Walt Williams at MD, and Finley most of his career at Wisconsin), while others can get buried on teams with scorers who NEVER look to pass (causing other players to go for long periods without shots, as Tmo did in college, whereas in the pros just about everybody gets to shoot).

"#2 Moreover, his stats improved in every area except shooting %, and he still managed 20 points per game.

#3 Finley averaged 15 points a game his first year in the NBA and shot .476% from the field. How well is Morris shooting again?"

---It's certainly true that Finley adjusted better than Tmo has so far, but that doesn't mean that Tmo won't turn it around. My counterexample still holds, at least to an extent. Both players experienced declines and suffered in terms of draft status. Both were honorable mention all-Americans multiple times without quite making one of the three all-american teams. Depending on how you interpret the effect of being on teams with different skill levels, Tmo's more serious decline could be chalked up to that. And Tmo has shown some positive signs.

"I just love the way you throw out two names and think you've made a case. You can always find exceptiosn to the rule... but when players decline their senior season... there's often a reason for it."

---I'm assuming you have studied little (if any) rhetoric. You originally presented Tmo's 'sucking' his senior season as necessarily ruling his becoming a good player this year. Thus, one or two counterexamples would refute you. Throwing out one or two names was all that was required, because of the thoughtless simplicity of your argument. IF I was dealing with someone who put thought into their posts, I would have argued that there are draft surprises every year--i.e. players who were never great or who fell short of expectations in high school who turn out to be good or great players. But I didn't have to waste that argument on you.

"Morris' stats suck and he looks lost on the court. He doesn't even look like the solid defender that he was reputed to be. He stayed in college for 4 years. I'm not sure how much more he's going to develop."

---Tmo rebounds and passes well. He can also handle the ball. I've seen a couple games (before he started playing well at all) and even then he didn't look 'lost.' There's a difference between looking tentative or hesitant and looking 'lost.'

"Incidentally, Morris was projected to be a top 5 pick after his *sophomore* season... that was when Francis was playing with him in the back court. By his junior season, he was already declining in the eyes of scouts."

---Incidentally, Tmo was NEVER projected to be a lottery pick by anyone engaged in anything other than idle speculation. Marty Blake, the NBA director of scouting, said this prior to last season's draft. There may have been speculation by some people who didn't know what they were talking about, but the 'top 5 after sophomore season' is a myth kept alive by media sensationalists.

 

Okay, even those of his defenders in here keep saying that they're not saying that Morris should start....so I will.

1) Whether or not this kid turns out to be the real deal is, I'll admit, still up for debate. However, I feel safe in saying that neither of those he's competing with minutes for ( Thomas, Williams) are going to be part of our future as starters either. Thomas is, in my opinion, a barometer player. If he's a big part of your future, you haven't got one. Don't get me wrong, I actually like Kenny, but he's not starter material for a contender, and definitlely not on a team already laden with score-first players. Morris, however, COULD be, and there's only one way to find out...play the guy. I firmly believe in doing everything to build a championship level team rather than making decisions based soley upon who might give us a few more wins right now. Sure, Thomas might win us the odd game right now, and Morris might lode us a few...but so what? It's not like we're breathing down the Lakers' necks..Sacrifice in the short term for long term gain. Worst case scenario, the kid never develops, and you've lost more games than you would have if Thomas or Williams were starting. You've got to take those kind of chances if you want to get rings. Example? Why did the Lakers trade Vlade Divac, a very solid pivot, for some high school kid? And this was before the HS to pro transition was common...you've got to take chances. The system is built to gradiate everyone towards the norm if you just go by the book...

2) Morris is, physically, the TYPE of 3 this team needs. We are short of multi-dimensional players. We have very few defenders. We have very few all-out hustlers.We have too many guys who want to chuck up shots at every opportunity. There is too much pressure on Stevie to be the sole ball carrier, and it might be r****ding his scoring....voila. Morris, if he develops, fits the bill exactly. Already, he is well ahead of most of our cast in some of these areas...

3) We invested a 1st rounder in this kid, and it's wise to try and get some return on our investment. Physically, he's got the whole package, and if we were to try and pinpoint the cause for his struggles so far, I feel that most of us would agree that confidence plays a large role...That's not going to get a whole lot better if he keeps getting 5 minutes one night, 15 the next, 7 the following, 23 the next...ect. At least, it hasn't helped so far, and I think that's understandable. Start him, let him get a chance to get into the flow of the game...a lot of do-it-all types need major minutes to get going. Scorers can come in and start jacking it up, all-arounders need a better feel of the OVERALL game to make their impact felt. Let's see what PT will do for this kid, after we found out what it did for Griffin...

 

JAG, nice post, I hear you! With the Rocket record as it is, Rudy has to develop what he has and see what he really has. I really believe with Terence, confidence comes with sufficient PT, or like you previously posted, is a "flow player". FREDTERP

PS Hottoddie, I like your enthusiam, a lot better than hearing "he sucks" from someone who does know how to read "all" the stats.

 

The offense flows so well when T-Mo and Griffin are in the game.

 

First for to address the good post...

Yeah, but the Lakers are also starting Samaki Walker. Ultimately, it's impossible to know if any draft choice will work out initially. You may have suspicions... but even with people like Francis and Griff... they could have been total busts. Ultimately, I think that players have to earn playing time. That's one thing I agree strongly with Rudy about.

What sort of message does it send players, otherwise? Yeah, Kenny... we know you're playing your heart out. And you actually look like you could be a meaningful contributor on most teams in the leauge... but, umm... we're going to bench you for Terrance Morris. Umm... no, we don't *think* he's anything special... but umm... you never know. Sorry you've been outplaying him all year! Enjoy your role on the bench!

Now to address the bad post...

This will be my last response ever on the issue of Morris to Fredterp or tmo.

Why? Because I used to be one of Morris' biggest fans at Maryland. I thought he might be a good mid-first round pick after his sophomore year... and was sort of hoping he would declare so the Rockets could take him. If you do a search, you'd discover this.

But noooooo... you'd prefer to categorize me as some irrational hater of your hero. You weren't here until Morris was actually on the team. Sorry, but you don't know what I think about Morris. Even this year, as a pure 2nd rounder... I would have thought him a steal. My objection was always that the Rockets used a 1st round pick to procure a 2nd round player... and what makes it worst, I think they did so to appease Steve Francis. Yes, they could have done otherwise... but the entire situation looks fishy to me.

 

I remember you posting your '1st round' objection. I was on this board toward the end of the college season.

More importantly, I don't really care too much what your opinion was of his draft status. What I care most about is your uniformly negative analysis of his play, both for the Rockets and in his senior season. It's not like you've been prefacing recent statments with, 'If only we hadn't traded a first rounder I wouldn't have as many issues with Tmo's play'. I don't care what you THOUGHT about Tmo last year or the year before that, but what you POST about him now. And those posts have been negative without exception. They DO display a lack of reason and an unfair bias against Tmo. You ARE an 'irrational hater' when it comes to Tmo.

Though I do appreciate you not responding to me about Tmo anymore, because your posts on him are thoughtless. When I point this out and argue why they're thoughtless, you go off topic and call my post 'bad' without giving reasons or examples. So thank you. Never again would I like to read your vapid, meaningless posts about Tmo.

 

haven...

I agree with your first statement, to a point. However, there is more to this than just effort, and it's just reward. First of all, it would be one thing to go to Kenny, and say, yeah, you're humpin' it, but we're gonna replace you with a guy with more ability who coasts. Morris has shown himself to be an effort guy as well. In my opinion, there are five factors that go into a player-level decision; physical ability,production, attitude, potential, and fit. (Ok, six-contract status, but we'll leave that to the cynics). Both have physical ability, but I would suggest that Morris has more , as Kenny's got the tweener curse. Both have demonstrated the attitude, although I would again suggest that Morris might do it at both ends more than Thomas. Production, I'll give you, but I'll get to that later. Potential is where it gets interesting. I disagree that the Rockets don't, or shouldn't, think that Morris is anything special. I think it's more than "you never know." Is he ever going to be a big-time scorer? Doubtfull..However, I feel he has shown signs that he's going to be one of those across the board kind of guys that don't make All-Star games, but make Championship Finals...I'm not suggesting just chucking in any young guy on the basis of "you never know", I'm suggesting playing a guy we felt was worth a 1st round pick. If you happen to know for a fact that the only reason the Rox did this was to appease Francis, and you've got it first hand that they don't think much of him, that's one thing. But if that's all supposition based on your interpretation of events, than please consider the alternative...maybe the Rockets have seen what I have; this kid could be what we're looking for. And that brings me to fit..I described before why I think he fits, if he pans out. I also described why I don't think Kenny does. But there's more to it than that. If it were just about rewarding hustle, coaching would be pretty simple; pick the 5 best hustle guys, and let them go to it. Yes, Kenny has been hustling, but so has Morris. What is more, I think he fits better. When Olajuwon went down last year, we were left with a starting 5 that hustled his way to book signiongs, and not much else. Conversely, Moochie brought a lot of hustle to the team at the time...did we start Mooch at the 5 spot? Obviously I'm stretching the point, but you get what I mean...where and how you fit means a lot too...add to that the question of potential and that Morris hustles too....

In terms of Kenny's production, I don't think it would be that much of a demotion for him to become our instant offense guy off the bench, a role too which he would be more suited than Morris. He could come off the bench firing when we need an offensive injection, and therefore wouldn't have to take his shots at the expense of the team's flow (supposing we get one), or our primary scorers. I also think it's a little innacurate to suggest that Thomas could be a meaningful contributer to most teams in the league, if you're talking starter. I've done a quick count, and it doesn't fly..he COULD be a key reserve on most teams, and that's what I'm suggesting for him here...

 

JAG, somebody needs to get the message to Rudy that we are not breathing down LA neck. He continues to play Francis and Mobley big minutes and not expose Langhi and Collier.