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illusion of 'choice' in america

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by txppratt, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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    the last few years have convinced me - both parties are full of **** and ultimately serve the same group of corporate lobbyists/banking cartel. the media is purposely suppressing some stories and highlighting others - our media/news outlets are just puppets, selling us a story.

    the systems divides us on social issues - so our differences spread us further apart, when in reality we all should be coming together to usurp the greed of the wealthy elite and corporatization of america.

    how many huge corporations (through tax loopholes) don't even pay taxes?
    are our presidential elections basically sold to the highest bidder?
    is anyone else tired of this whole 'illusion' of choice we have in america?

    sorry - i know i'm kind of ranting... but i'm starting to see things for what they are and it's pissing me off. the middle class of america are basically economic slaves - and we're all lining the pockets of the wealthy elite in this country. meanwhile our government is staging things like 9/11 to keep the people in constant fear.

    pretty sure the founding fathers wouldn't approve of what we've become here.
     
    #1 txppratt, Feb 8, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  2. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    True in principle, though they're different in carrying out said desires. Because of that difference, you'll see emotion triumph in political exchanges rather than tangible benefit, long or short term.

    Europe considers the US further right than they are. Their conservatives are our equivalent of liberals.

    While people are going to knee jerk about how communistic or socialistic they are, it isn't an emotional point about whether they're better or worse, but rather a change in perspective to give insight in what others in the outside think of us on the inside.
     
  3. Hmm

    Hmm Member

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    I never understood the social division in politics... After all, unless you're promoting a fascist dictatorship or just a dictatorship in general.... no one political theory is inherently evil or designed to do wrong... For all Americans have been rallied to rail against communism, and decry socialism throughout it's history... the theories themselves weren't what was the problem... it was the abuse and corruptionof those in power that was the problem... It happens in a capitalistic/democratic society as well... the difference being merely the extent of power that abuse and corruption is allowed to reach....

    Why then, do people seem so justified in taking one side over another as if one is intrinsically right, and the other is intrinsically wrong.... on the basis that this is how they were raised...? Doesn't this sound awfully identical to religion and how it's propagated through the centuries, unquestioned by those that sustain it...? Where's the logic in that...?
     
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  4. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    Congress has a 13% approval rating, and a 90% reelection rate. We have no control over our political process.
     
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  5. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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    i just see things like abortion and gay rights rule the news... and it seems as if those issues are always front and center to hide what's really happening in the world.

    meanwhile the american military complex grows our empire globally.
     
  6. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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    exactly...

    how does this continue to happen?

    corporate private interest $$$$

    our government does NOT represent the people. our government operates to make $$.
     
  7. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Its called growing up. The reality begins to set in that both parties are FOS. Your anger is directed to the politicians and you start to believe they are all to blame. One starts to believe all business are greedy and evil and they only care about the bottom dollar, all while these same individuals keep investing into 401ks and IRA's that contain these same companies that they believe are greedy and evil. They have no problems when their stocks go up and give them fantastic returns, however.

    Eventually one realizes that the greediness lies in the common person. They will find that people vote on what suits them best, regardless of whats best for the overall health of the country. This could be welfare if you're poor, lower taxes if you're the middle class, or more tax breaks if you're rich or more government assistance for the elderly. You then realize why politicians are damn liars. Nobody wants an honest politician in office.
     
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  8. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    You've got it basically right. However, if you stop with both parties are for the corporations and the banks that is not good enough. There are still individuals politicians who are not. They are mainly in the Democratic Party with fewer in the GOP. The important thing is to not get so cynical that you don't do anything. If you do, the bad guys in both parties win.

    Support good candidates when you have the chance. You can vote for Hillary or Obama as the lesser of two evils if needs be. You could vote third party, but you have to use your head. If Gore had beaten Dubya there would have not have been the horrible twin multi-trillion disasters of the Iraq War and the massive redistribution of tax money and services from the middle class to the one percent which has led to government deficits. These two disasters by Dubya will takes years to overcome.

    Avoid cynicism and at the minimum keep educating yourself and spread the word to folks you know. Perhaps join the movement to overcome Citizen's United and keep the .1% from buying our politicians so openly.
     
  9. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    There's always a grift in the system. 20 - 40 years ago when my parents immigrated and then mom had to work again after divorcing it was cheap tuition; when my brother traded MBS's out of school it was easy credit, and ten plus years in O&G with no engineering or finance skills it's fracking and LNG dementia. Seeking opportunities and competing with those around you is engaging and ultimately rewarding enough that it will distract and even insulate you from superdelegates or CEOs' discretionary spending.

    And as far as social issues go, majority groups allocate resources and opportunities on bias and favoritism and minority groups overreact with sociocultural and behavioral escapism. The "system" cuts the cake judicially and legislatively, ships in the firepower to keep the riots at bay, an stacks the deck educationally to keep the kids and grandkids in line. People don't give up the one free advantage they have otherwise.
     
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  10. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Roughly 90% of the time the candidate with the most money wins.

    Anybody see some possible connection?
     
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  11. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    This is not growing up. It is feeling powerless. It is accepting a variation of the selfish individualism of the conservative/"libertarian" philosophy pushed in the interest of the .1% and unfortunately supported by lots of embattled little guys who are worried that they will become "poors" if they don't act selfish, too.
     
  12. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Actually Capitalism is just as corrupt as the others
    the thing is capitalism is better at covering up

    In fact the "Illusion of Choice" the OP is talking about is exactly the mechanism used to cover it up.

    Rocket River
     
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  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    While money is an issue, its about the politics. People get reelected because the choices are not any better. See: 2008 and 2012 Election. If a candidate wants to get elected, he has to play ball with his party. This essentially means that having a honest politician is nearly impossible. A candidate can get in on local and even state elections on his own personal convictions, but when it comes to Washington, you're at the mercy of the beast.
     
  14. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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  15. fadeaway

    fadeaway Contributing Member

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    Completely agree. I'm not sure there's actually a group of people in a board room somewhere saying "Okay, this is how we are going to manipulate the people today...." but it seems like that's the way things have naturally worked out. Inequality of wealth and the slow death of the middle class is the biggest problem facing the world today, in my opinion. It really sucks, and it doesn't seem like anything is going to change anytime soon.
     
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  16. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Yeah. We're an imperial power.

    So what?
     
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  17. K-Low_4_Prez

    K-Low_4_Prez Member

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    Democratic or Republican, it really doesn't matter... they are all reptilians!
     
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  18. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    There's no money in populism. No one will pay you to work on behalf of the poor.
     
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  19. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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    corporate america has completely corrupted the political process.

    an example: most of the things you buy in the grocery store come from a few conglomerates... they divide themselves into parent & sub-companies to control the market. and most items you buy in the grocery store are GMO.

    <a target="_blank" href="https://imageshack.com/i/n8l3x4j"><img src="http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/836/l3x4.jpg" border="0"></a>

    <script type="text/javascript" src="http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/congress-job-approval/embed.js#!maxdate=2014-02-09&estimate=official" data-width="580" data-height="400"></script>

    and how many senators/congressmen will get re-elected. thanks gerrymandering.
     
  20. NotInMyHouse

    NotInMyHouse Contributing Member

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    Certainly feels that way at least.
     
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