I think the key difference is one is asking for "accountability and justice for all victims of crimes against humanity" while the other is defending and not asking for that. I do not find it inflammatory because it is at least partially true and I think the US should always aim for accountability and justice, not avoidance and looking the other way, or being part of the problem. Personally, the people in the US and every country in the world has such thin skin, are so sensitive and unable to look at their faults. I think that's why there is such negative reaction to statement like this and an inability to see that there is some truth to it. Even Trump's statement is true in a way, but again, the difference is that he wasn't asking to be better, but to defend the bad behaviors.
Again the context of the statement matters and along with it being a very simplistic statement. So yes the US has killed people but we've also had elections in the last decade that has changed our government and in spite of some's efforts we haven't had one party violently drive out political rivals. We should and can acknowledge our history but that doesn't mean that all countries or in the case of Hamas, parties, are the same.
Whether Israel created Hamas or not what does that have to do with Ilhan's Omar statement? This is what I mean by things that are tangentially relevant.
What? Since when is Trump the only politician that likes the spotlight and does things for attention. Why would she high;ite that particular interaction? Is that something her constituents are really worried about? Confusing her for Trump? Really?
What does us having elections have to do with our draconian foerign policy of removing sovereignty of foerign nations and murdering civilians at immensely higher rates than Hamas? Both our parties engage in this? It is embedded deep in our foerign policy where an election is irrelevant to the damage we do. If there is one bipartisan aspect of our politics, it's the military industrial complex.
I think it's rather obvious. She is claiming that we need self awareness as a nation that we caused a lot of these problems along with our allies.
There is nothing confusing about what I posted. This is a weak attempt at deflection, not playing these games with you.
you had mentioned in the response that someone was saying hamas was democratically elected in the us. I already responded to the ilhan omar's statement, I agree with you on that one .I don't think shes a good voice or message. Somehow all I'm saying is both things can be true, Hamas is terrible actor, and Israel is committing war crimes, they are both complex issues. I don't understand why your sticking on 'defending hamas', when im once again clearly saying i think hamas is a bad actor and doesnt serve the peace process or palestinian people well, I also think that with netanyahu after what we've seen for years
Another one of Netanyahu's greatest hits. 2003, before we embarked on the Iraq war that cost trillions and so many lives " Indeed, Netanyahu was a rather aggressive Iraq hawk back in the early 2000s. "There is no question whatsoever that Saddam is seeking, is working, is advancing towards to the development of nuclear weapons," Netanyahu said in 2002 testimony to Congress. "Once Saddam has nuclear weapons, the terror network will have nuclear weapons," Not only did Netanyahu get the nuclear issue wrong — Saddam was not building a nuclear program after all — but he incorrectly predicted that the war would inspire an Iranian democratic uprising that would topple the theocratic regime. "If you take out Saddam, Saddam's regime, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region," Netanyahu claimed. "And I think that people sitting right next door in Iran, young people, and many others, will say the time of such regimes, of such despots is gone." Here's video:
Do you mean the context of a "tweet" statement in how simplistic it was, how non-careful she was with it, and how it got her in trouble? Yes, agree to that - but that's political novice and I think as we all know, tweets don't convey much and can be taken wrong and twisted to hell. The context I look at is her past extended video statement in this area. I can sense what she is trying to say much more from that video and I don't see her equating the US to terrorists, but trying to get attention to the US being part of the problem and should be responsible for its part. Personally, we should not be funding Israel if it keeps up with the systematic state-issued unfair treatment of a whole population.
You wrote: https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/ilhan-omar-tweets-and-other-news.295813/page-30#post-13576910 "Hamas was democratically elected by Palestinians. And they didn't need an electoral college or gerrymandering to win legislative seats." Why did you write that if you didn't think comparing our democracy with what Hamas is doing matter? I agree both parties tend to support Israel more than the do Hamas that doesn't change the fact that we've had elections since 2006 (the last time Hamas actually contested an election) and in spite of some efforts haven't violently resolved our political differences. We aren't the same as Hamas. And did she say that in her comments toward Blinken regarding the founding of Hamas? I think you're reading far more into her statement.
I didn't say Hamas was democratically elected in the US. I said another poster was saying Hamas was democratically elected and comparing it to the US elections. I just posted that quote in the previous post. Of course both things can be true and even said even agreed you weren't defending Hamas. What I'm saying is you're all over the place bringing up things that are tangential. I will also point out that Omar's statement wasn't just about Hamas and Israel but she was also bringing the US. It's interesting to note how Omar has already pulled back from those statements yet here on CF.net it seems that a few are continuing to try to justify them.
Bc I could care less about Omar. She doesn't represent me and as you mentioned it sort of sucks she represents your district bc the bigggest issue to me as you mentioned is missing votes, not doing your damn job. So yea, Omar can kick rocks. I appreciate her story as somenone diverse making it in america and being opinionated about change of political culture, but she hasn't done it well. Thten if you aregoing to do it and then have your own finance issues and miss votes, Its very hard for me to support someone like that . We do need a change in political culture, the way they right bills and amendments which most memebers dont even have time to read them or they let lobbyist right their own add ons, ear marks, so on and thats a rehaul that is across the board needed. So back to the point of the actual message. Omar said what trump said, that the US is not innocent and we've been a part of of some misguided and very costly both in lives abroad and home, economics in both reas. Is that an indicment of some peoples sensitive version of 'america is great'? Sure, but does it mean america is not great? no. Thats the ideal of democracy, not htat america is a perfect union, that we can with our voice and votes continue to shape and reach our ideals. I think its a very special place, once again and I also believe we've taken apart on terrible costly wars that hurt america, not help. Likewise with a few policies. Sadly, politicians easlily hide behind any criticisim of policy as criticism of "america" or not lovign america, no its an indiment of terrible leadership and with a congress and senate with miserable approval rates, we can do better than these folks. Including omar. I'm bringing up comparable precedents that as we allow israel to do it, saudi becomes another domino, india as well and basically all those places use the same lines. that they have a right to defend thmselves from terrorist.why? Bc everyone agrees with that, but obviously the details don't really tell that whole story, especially with israel. Sadly the new president is also a right hard winger which in israel is a pretty aggressive mentality that even some on the right believe Palesenians children are fair game bc they feel they will grow up to be killers Prominent former member of israeli government, leader of the religious zionist party : In April 2016, Bezalel Smotrich tweeted that he supports segregation of Arab and Jewish women in hospital's maternity wards: "It is natural that my wife would not want to lay down next to someone who just gave birth to a baby that might want to murder her baby in another 20 years. So apparently you agree with me, but you don't like the way I'm bringing up other examples and you think my lack of denouncing of hamas every other sentence when i UNEQUIVOCALLY DENOUNCE HAMAS( I DECLARE HAMAS TERRORIST!-is that good?) doesn't fit your rhetoric as enough or as excusing when I find it damning enough that the peace process would make steps with them out. I also believe that about netanyahu and now he is gone, but not really gone like trump working on the sidelines and claiming hell be back in a few months. These guys so obviously just use history to drum up a common enemy, its been done before, to heighten fear and sustain their power. People eat it up, history rhymes
I'm going to note that you were the one who initially responded to me so if we actually agree it seems like you were the one who wanted to have the debate and are prolonging it. Nothing wrong with that. I get it and this is a Debate forum. Anyway other than bringing up a lot of tangential stuff I'm glad you agree with my overall contention.
