you seem to be a master at bringing up race in every topic it's fine if you have the viewpoint that every law is unbreakable, that's cool, i just wish you would've said that in the "new orleans looters" thread where you got angry at other posters that were saying how wrong it was for them to BREAK IN convenience stores as for me, i don't see race, i am actually color blind when it comes to race, everyone is American to me
and those people in worse situations than Mexicans will immigrate too if they were as close as Mexico is, i believe race is an underlying factor in the immigration debate, people seem to believe that if Latino's became a majority here the whole country would turn into a third world country overnight, ridiculous
Just to be fair. I don't know the percentage, but a lot of hispanics are also against illegal immigration.
That's a very good point. As a matter of fact, i am also against illegal immigration. But my reasons for being so are different than most. I'm just tired of having the illegals demonized in this country. I hate how we use immigrants to better all aspects of our life, yet we despise them. Company's that hire them don't care about them or their safety and are just using them to increase their profit margins. These people are human too and they deserve some dignity. Both sides politically use them as pawns while they run their campaigns. The democrats use them so they can gain some votes. The republicans use them to rally their xenophobic base. My dream would be that every Mexican immigrant go back to a corrupt-free Mexico and lead that nation to become the great nation it can become. That way we won't have this argument any more.
It's the other way around. Republicans like George and Jeb Bush are very fair to Hispanics. They're bending over backwards with their benigh policies. They're taking alot of heat for such things as driver licenses, amnesty programs, guest worker etc..
A. I never brought Race into this discussion . .. you did b. Here you are stating BLACK LOOTERS . . what about the white looters? OH MY BAD . . in your opinion the white folx were 'gathering supplies' c. I never said they were RIGHT to do it . . nor did I ever said I did not understand the mexican situation [I don't understand the governance which is what I am waiting on Fisher to Explain] so A - you are blaming me for something you did b. you are showing your obvious bias and that you DO see Race rather than being color blind c. you are simply putting words in my mouth to suit your needs Also, New Orleans folx are American Citizens and should have more rights than an Illegal Alien ALSO, the people in New Orleans were suffering through one of the worse Natural Disaster in modern US History and their actions were for a period of time less than what . .2 weeks . . . Immigrants are an on going process over the corse of years This is Apple and oranges comparison for no other reason than to to make race a factor The good ole BAIT AND SWITCH Color Blind? it is like saying the only way we can get along is to all be the same . . and that is just sad if you feel that way If we cannot tolerate different . . . well i guess we doomed Rocket River
Mexico is a representative democracy, much like New Orleans, Louisiana, and the United States of America. Did you really need me to tell you this Rocket River? This information is not exactly hard to discover and is within the public domain. Now, I'm waiting for you to tell me how poor Mexicans are responsible for being poor and Mexican.
Yes I did, every time there is an immigration thread you always bring up how the law is unbreakable and that no matter how good these people are or how bad their situation, they shouldn't break the law to come here, because it's against the LAW, yet there are other threads where you try to rationalize the behavior of some black people that break the law, it's something i've definately noticed the whole time i've visited this message board, and frankly it's annoying wow, so you can read minds too? i never mentioned anything about the white looters, hell i'll even defend ALL the looters in New Orleans, cause i understand that there are times when one must break the law to save their family, call me a moral relativist or whatever, but at least i don't change my stance on this when it comes to other races, yet you believe that all laws are unbreakable, well when it comes to immigration anyway you don't understand alot of things, as far as i can tell go back and read the new orleans looter thread, it's pretty obvious you're defending them for breaking the LAW, which is cool, but don't come in this thread and talk about how these immigrant people shouldn't break the LAW to come here, due to their various circumstances so it's ok to break the law, as long as you're an American Citizen? i really didn't mean to make race a factor, i just get annoyed by the fact that you always come into these immigration threads with tough talk, you know, no excuses, you should never break the law, yet you don't show the same treatment when it involves a black person, you try to rationalize it away on how it's the government's fault, that's all i'm saying, and i'm pretty sure people on this board have called you out on your continous use of the race card
Mexico is a Nation . . New Orleans is a city And basically . . . I am told here all the time Poor folx are responsible for their problems and now. . . when it is illegals. .well . .that is different? Poor folx in America are told to Boot Strap it but Illegals. . .well we give them a pass? Shouldn't they be BOOT Strapping it. . IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY? Rocket River
No, Rocket River - they're lazy and are just sitting around, traveling thousands of miles, and risking their lives to clean your toilets and feed their families to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps"; LOL That's beside the point; I still have yet to hear you explain why a poor mexican farmer is responsible for things such as foreign agricultural subsidies, weather patterns, global economics, and social unrest which cause him to have to break "the law" by crossing into the US and clean your toilet to feed his family; whereas the poor New Orleans resident can knock over a liquor store in a time of need and it's not his fault because all bets are off. How can the poor Mexican control the global economy, the weather, or US trade policy any more than an New Orleans resident can control the weather? I've asked you several times and you have yet to attempt to respond. Honestly, the hypocrisy which you accuse others of is exactly what you are committing. I find absolutely reprehensible and repulsive when you and others make broadmoral judgments about illegal aliens, who, in order to feed their families, break what are essentially paper laws and are more or less encouraged by our society to do so. it's like saying "all speeders should go to hell for violating the speed limiit, it is sacred, it is the LAW" --
Strangely enough When it comes to Black Citizens everyone has they TOUGH ON CRIME hats but when it comes to Illegals everyone wants to rationalize and talk about how tough they have it .. blah blah blah You say I have a double standard .. fine But i see that double standard applied to Black folx everyday . . all day . . Rocket River
First, you could hardly come up with a better example of "bootstrapping it" than illegal immigrants coming to this country and busting their ass in low wage jobs to make a better life for themselves and their families. Second, are you saying that if you lived in Mexico and your family was destined to a life of poverty, you would let them continue living in those conditons rather than cross the border, because you don't believe in breaking the law?
Your right a double standard is applied to Blacks in this country all the time. Which makes it even worse for someone who experiences this double standard, to justify using one on another group.
RR -- I think you need to see or read more carefully about the poverty in Mexico before you comment further.
The thing to realize though is that not crimes are the same or equivalent. There is a difference between a person, say Alfredo, who crosses illegally but otherwise is working hard to support his family and commits no other crimes vs say crimes committed by the likes, in the worst case, something like a Jeffrey Dalmer or Sam Berkowitz or Ted Bundy, or even just your run of the mill robber, murderer, rapist, etc. What "Alfredo" is doing is illegal but it isn't in my mind equivalent to robbery, murder, rape, etc so no there is not double standard.
So does this ideal work for the African Nations? Asian Nations? Basically ANY AND EVERYONE in a poor nation should be gived a Free pass to America? If not .. Why are Mexicans Special? Please Show me my Broad Moral Judgement Rocket RIver
They're not special. If there was an african or asian country next door my response would be the same. (shockingly, there are illegal immigrants from those countries too - I don't see why the same logic doesn't apply) Well, let's see, sifting through the detritus of your posts, your very first implication is that poor Mexicans can't break the law and should be kept poor because their situaion is "of their own design"; aside from your numerous expressions of contempt and condemnation for lawbreakers. If those aren't moral judgments, what are they? Now, you do me the courtesy of answering the question I have posed to you several times: How can the poor Mexican control the global economy, the weather, or US trade policy any more than an New Orleans resident can control the weather? I missed this gem earlier: ....the fact that there are millions of illegal immigrants here - despite the hardships and tremednous costs involved - indicates definitively and inarguably, where the "options" are; hint, it ain't in a trash dump outside Mexico D.F.
Mexicans aren't any more special than the rest. They're just closer. It isn't a practical issue with Africans, Asians, Europeans, Australians, Antarcticans, Martians, etc.
That's not what anyone is saying. They're rationalizing what illegal immigrants are doing. You're missing the distinction here. While it is (and correctly) illegal to come here without going through the proper channels, it is understandable when people do it because they want to make a living for themselves and their families. You're arguing for all the wrong reasons. Morality should be the last argument you cite because its the least persuasive. Arguing that these illegal immigrants are "immoral" for trying to better their family's lives is simply ridiculous. If you were as poor and destitute as many of these people are, you probably wouldn't give a damn about immigration law. In the end, the most moral action is to support your family (unless that involves harming others, which illegal immigration does not do) Also, you're missing another element of the "bootstraping" debate. It's encouraged for many families because many illegal immigrants end up sending money back home which in a sense helps boost their economy and gives a lot of families greater purchasing power that they otherwise wouldn't have. Sure, you're making sweeping claims declaring illegal immigrants "immoral" from your position as an armchair intellectual. That's why its annoying when people like us talk about what is and isn't racism because many times we don't understand it since we haven't experienced it. The same goes for the logic of illegal immigration. If you were in the shoes of an illegal immigrant, you probably would try jumping across the border as well.
