The impact is less dire than you make it out to be. Most illegal immigrants fill niche industries since they can't actually get employment in a lot of mainstream jobs. Granted, there is some level of displacement, but the impact isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be. Also, downward pressures on wages on occur in select industries, not the overall economy. Also, these industries that illegal immigrants are apart of tend to have a less powerful effect on the overall economy. As for the minimum wage, your myth above has been debunked repeatedly. The minimum wage hasn't even kept up with inflation meaning any rise would do jack in terms of employment or inflation. Also, past raises have proven that the unemployment/inflation myth is simply not true. Now employing concepts like the "living wage" that some areas have adopted (10 dollar-ish minimum wages) might have an effect, but even a fairly large raise from our current minimum wage would do little to actually impact prices. The minimum wage is so low now that it doesn't even come close to breaking the poverty line. Fair enough, and I understand the need to have some limits. But to force people to show their immigration status at the emergency room would be an equally ridiculous logistical problem. There's just no way around this problem. Emergency Rooms have to stay true to their mission, which is to accept anyone in need of major medical care. These are all serious questions but a simple rejection of all social services for illegal immigrants clearly isn't the answer and a more careful and exact analysis of the situation is needed.
Will the Citizens/Legals get this too??? Man . . then Illegals get MORE than the Citizens/Legal Rocket River
Thanks for the reply. You bring up some good points. I haven't done much research (except theoretical stuff from Econ 101) - so your points about minimum wage could very well be correct. I think the job displacement could be a little more serious than you think though. I used to live in South Central LA and I noticed a lot more young, unemployed people as more and more immigrants moved into the neighborhood. I do agree with you, however, that this is theoreticially a "short-term" phenomenom. I don't want to cut off all public services. I just think some sort line should be drawn. I only used the emergency room example to show that there are harmful side-effects that can be dire if not planned for. Emergency rooms did start closing in Southern California at an alarming rate. Should illegal immigrant families be eligible for California Healthy Families Programs (basically free health care)? I don't know. It's easy for me to say "no" to public health care on an ideological level, but I would admittedly be hard-pressed to deny some poor family health case on personal level (as such it may only exarcerbate the emergency room problems). All that being said - I am all for a loosening of the immigration policies. I would not be against some sort of amnesty program. The vast majority of illegal immigrants are here simply so they can work to survive. As you say, this is a difficult problem. I think sometimes, the traditionally conservative side sometimes fails to see that there is a human element. Trying to be sensible and humane at the same time may be difficult.
Such a policy would never see the light of day (hopoefully) but there are some in Sacramento who want this.
I hope not another note I find the Supply and Demand folx using immigratants as a cheat of the supply and Demand system Like adding more water to the kool aid. Rocket River
Name one social service available to illegal immigrants that's not available to the majority of Americans.
we have nothing that remotely resembles the poverty of a third world nation like mexico. they risk lives to cross borders to come over and live in our version of poverty.
i'm telling you...if my kids lived in the conditions of a 3rd world country...in that extreme of poverty. there is no way in hell i'd stay there. and if i had to break an immigration law to get around it, i would.
Of course, but you also broke the law and if caught you should be punished (deported). I agree with RR. No one blames them for coming. They did the "right" thing. Unfortunately it's the "wrong" thing. Come here legally. Why have laws otherwise?
SO You think we should simply open the gates from them? while you are sympathizing with them just let me know DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD ALLOW EVERYONE LIVING UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS TO JUST COME HERE? IF NOT . . how do YOU chose who gets to come .. and who doesn't? since you obviously want to justify their cause WHAT IS THE CUT OFF POINT Rocket River
many people argue that illegals should be caught and sent back to mexico because they broke the law. i remember in one of MLK's letter, he talked about just laws and unjust laws. just laws coincide with the natural, moral law whereas unjust laws don't. for example, in Hitler's Germany, killing a Jew was perfectly legal, but did not fit into the context of a moral law. many mexicans face with breaking the u.s. immigration laws but do it anyway. why? if they do follow the immigration law, they will have to live with poverty, poor health, minimum food/shelter, and a very dismal future for their whole family. however, when they "break" the law, they have the opportunity to pursue their very own life, liberty, and happiness. with this type of choice, are they really breaking the law?
I do not support "illegal" immigrants. I even have something against the massive welfare program in general. The thing is a lot of these immigrants are "illegal" because the government make it very hard for them to become "legal" immigrants. If you make them legal, they will work hard and pay tax. What is wrong with that? Oh, yeah, that will cost the jobs of some already "legal" citizens. That is a problem. But to be fair, all men are citizens of this planet. What gives the early comers the right to errect a fence and deny the entry of late comers? As long as they agree to abide the laws of this land, they should be entitled the right to make an honest living here. Just my 2c. I am sure the reality is a lot more complicated.
I guess it depends on your standard. If I am selfish, as everyone is us is, the answer is "no". But I must admit, selfishness is what hides behind that answer. Should some of the rich states in US shut their doors and forbid people from poor states to move to their turf? I don't think so. The door should not be opened or shut because of ones wealth level. But I am sure the selfishness inside everyone of us trump everything, right?
Ultimately the only true solution to the problem is for Mexico to become a developed first-world nation. When that happens we can even have open borders like they do in the EU. Until then as long as the standard of living differential exists people will risk their lives to come illegally. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain so they will continue to do so.
Everybody accepts that as reality, I mean everybody that can think logically, not the kind of O'Reily or Lou Dobb. The question is whether wanting a better life make them "illegal".
i'm telling you right now...if my kids don't have clean water...and don't have any hope left in a land that offers no hope...i'm out. i don't care what your laws are. i don't care what your regulations are. i'm not sticking around.
