1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

IKOSYSTEM - The Championship Chase & Luxury Tax

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BHannes2BHonest, Oct 21, 2020.

  1. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    31,784
    Likes Received:
    25,721
    umm he got multiple deals since phx. I'd say he's done pretty well. in fact he made more money in the last 3 seasons then his rockets tenure here before he left. so he was still pretty coveted for someone that has done nothing apparently. good job ariza. he sure did pretty well when they played hou earlier this year too. lol @ ennis. dude sucks ass

     
    #61 YOLO, Oct 23, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
    BHannes2BHonest, D-rock and HP3 like this.
  2. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    896
    Ariza was never a shooter. His best asset was his defense and slashing. This is why Rockets have a bad rap around the league. Rockets know when you have peaked. Maybe Ariza wanted a multi year deal @ 15m. I have no clue! But we couldn't keep him for one more year at 15m? Either Ariza was part of the core/team or he wasn't, and Rockets showed that. Some players provide heart. You can't just plug players in and expect the same results unless they are really good. Only good thing to come out of this situation is that we found a found younger player equal or better than Ariza at this point in Ariza's career. House is young and look forward to him developing more.
     
  3. RHU525

    RHU525 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    2,385
    Worked out great. Got traded for Oubre. Sure wish we had Oubre.
     
    BHannes2BHonest and D-rock like this.
  4. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    22,659
    Likes Received:
    7,584
    As I said, Tillman IS cheap.

    However, until someone in the organization directly comes out and says DM was all about resigning Ariza to use as an asset at worst, I can't put this solely on Tillman.

    Tillman didn't ALWAYS own the team. He didn't own the team when DM decided to let Chandler Parsons walk a year early. Or not resign Dragic. Or give Jeremy Lin a HUGE contract, etc.

    Also, Ennis wasn't that bad. If im pissed about Ennis, its the fact that they then TRADED him for savings. that's the part that was dumb.
     
  5. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    16,247
    Likes Received:
    15,663
    It doesn't matter if Moute was done, it doesn't matter if you think Ariza isn't worth 15 mill and is too inconsistent on offense.

    They brought something to our team that wasn't brought back or replaced, which was vital, defense. And in Ariza's case, likely chemistry.

    I blame Tilman for not re-signing Ariza, and not re-signing or replacing Moute, and not replacing Nene when it became apparent he was cooked. We didn't use our MLE that off-season due to him wanting to duck the tax. Ariza on a one year 15 mill deal was not a threat to a damn thing outside of tax cost, his contract wouldn't have crippled the team it was a one year deal that was valuable enough to land Oubre with.

    There was very little Morey could do when he was only allowed to work with vet min replacements. It was all on Tillman, he refused to pay the tax Morey wasn't allowed to pay Ariza, use the MLE, we wasted Melton and a 1st to turn Anderson into Shump to duck tax instead of using those assets to improve.

    Our GOAT record team was dismantled out of pure cheapness within 2 years.
     
  6. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    31,784
    Likes Received:
    25,721
    Ding Ding Ding. and even if you don't go after someone like Oubre it's still a 1 year expiring asset to use in a deal to upgrade, if you wanted to move on from Ariza. Or even if you wanted to chop your salary at some point. and welp he got more deals after phoenix so yes he was still very much coveted in the league, no matter what the rest of the ariza sucks people want to think. still miles better than the absolute garbage brought in that took literally 2 years to find someone compatible

    This aged very well
     
    #66 YOLO, Oct 23, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  7. BMoney

    BMoney Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,435
    Likes Received:
    5,376
    Trevor Ariza was traded for Kelly Oubre.
     
  8. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    10,433
    Likes Received:
    13,191
    o_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_O

    Well firstly, we let Parsons walk because Bosh didnt sign with us. And Bosh not signing with us as well as Parsons not doing so was great. o_O
     
  9. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    31,784
    Likes Received:
    25,721
    you really brought up parson's as if it was a mistake. remind us how much hes played since hes left and what hes done since. I mean they replaced him with ariza and got better production at a fraction of the cost. and that was actually instant results. it wasn't some this will look better down the road type of deal
     
  10. RHU525

    RHU525 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    2,385
    Why would you need anyone to tell you that? Morey spent his first 10 years are a GM collecting assets. All of sudden he just decides to dump them for luxury tax savings? The only thing that changed was the ownership. Like cmon dude. It’s common sense.
     
    BHannes2BHonest and D-rock like this.
  11. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    14,693
    Likes Received:
    10,149

    Like I said--you can blame Tilman and whoever else in the organization for not having a contingency plan in place when it was clear that they weren't going to bring Ariza and Luc back. I'm with you there, however, re-signing Ariza to $15 million is just not a smart thing to do. At $10 million? Sure At $12 million? Maybe At $15 million? Who in their minds would have thought TREVOR ARIZA would have gotten a deal like that after 2018? Be honest; did you think Ariza could have netted a deal of $15 million, especially the way he performed in the last two games of the WCF? Above all else from Phoenix?


    Bottom line is that I think the fact that the team showed gross incompetence in not being able to replace Ariza and Moute is somehow making it retroactively justifiable to have paid Ariza $15 million.
     
  12. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    22,659
    Likes Received:
    7,584
    of course it was a mistake? do you not remember? the rockets still had rights to keep him for one more year for under $1 million.
    The rationale explained was that it would be easier to sign Bosh, maybe, and then they could match Parsons.
    Which, sure, in retrospect, would have been a disaster.
    But i still don't get why they couldn't pick up his option, pay him less than $1 million a year, and figure out some other way to find $1 million, lol... or, I don't, maybe be 99.999999% sure Bosh was coming before letting one of your better assets (at that time) walk, when you could have just kept him.
    Chandler was pretty solid his first year in Dallas, too... just only 66 games.
     
  13. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    22,659
    Likes Received:
    7,584
    How may times did Les Alexander go into the luxury tax?

    https://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/les-alexander-and-the-luxury-tax.300488/

    Again... is Tillman "cheap"?

    Sure.. .But then he did OVERPAY for a team, saddles with a promise to give CP3 a ridiculous contract, all while his GM decided to tank revenues by saying something about China and meanwhile, COVID happens, which happens to be the type of catastrophic event that uniquely ****s businesses like Tillmans.

    Do I like Tillman? No. I had heard all the stories about him and his style for years. I was WAY LESS THAN ECSTATIC when he bought the team.

    Do I feel "bad" for him given the events that have happened? Still no.

    But you have to admit, things have gone DOWNHILL pretty fast for him since he bought the Rockets, much of which is 100% out of his control.
     
  14. RHU525

    RHU525 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    2,385
    Les didn’t want to do it either which is why he sold the team. I’m not saying Les is any better or worse. Just saying Tillman should stop saying he’s willing to spend and then turn around and do the opposite. He must think the fans are dumb because it’s obvious he’s not willing to spend and he’s ruining Hardens prime. James deserves better and should demand a trade.
     
    JayZ750 likes this.
  15. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    31,784
    Likes Received:
    25,721
    well it's pretty well known why they didn't pick up his option so that he couldn't hit the market as an UFA. So a team like dallas made their mistake and saved Hou from making one by giving him a massive deal. Which 100% worked out for Houston. everything went downhill for Parsons the second he left Houston. 0 regrets at all
     
    Nook and HP3 like this.
  16. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    16,247
    Likes Received:
    15,663
    I don't know why you are so bothered by Ariza getting 15 mill for one year. A bad team offered a big 1 year overpay, Reddick got over 20 million in the same situation. We we're paying Anderson 18 million at the time (on a long term deal which WAS a problem, unlike a 1 year deal), look at the deal Iggy has.

    You are too stuck on being upset about him being overpaid 5 mill, it sure is retroactively justifiable, and it was justifiable at the time too, we both agree they should have done better to replace him regardless, but keeping him at that deal would have in fact been a VERY smart move for us. You don't have to be so mad about him getting more then he derseved for one year, that wouldn't have hurt our on floor product one bit, nor would it had hurt our flexibility, it would have done the exact opposite and left us in a much better position. Remember how we tried to give Nene that special contract?

    We we're looking to cut cost, and use our assets to clear cap so Tilman didn't have to pay tax instead of looking to get better by any means. Fatal flaw. We should have re-signed Ariza, re-signed Moute, and packaged our 6 first round picks to land that team another star with Ariza's expiring deal instead of cutting taxes and panic spending it combined with Clint on WB and Covington.
     
  17. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    10,433
    Likes Received:
    13,191
    Nope. Not true. The year after he bought the team. We made many terrible moves to cut costs at the trade deadline. We then made a horrible trade for Westbrook. Treated Dantoni like trash and he then most likely got heavily involved with the coaching pick when he should have stuck his nose out of it. There were already reports out there that Daryl and Tillman had a rocky relationship. Everything has been down hill since he bought the team.

    And for every supposed "bad" move Daryl has made, he's always managed to come out ahead in the end.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...of-trades-how-much-did-they-help-the-rockets/
     
    D-rock likes this.
  18. BHannes2BHonest

    BHannes2BHonest Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,126
    Likes Received:
    2,930
    I hear you.. that was a small decision amongst many. The article goes into not using our exceptions and other decisions too...

    It’s a culmination of things where Morey was handcuffed by avoiding tax.... hence why we have 0 FRPicks until the year 3000 and why we haven’t used a FRP since the new ownership

    package assets year after year to AVOID the TAX. Unforgivable when we had the best possible team at the time to dethrone the Golden Girls
     
    #78 BHannes2BHonest, Oct 23, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
    MettaWorldPete likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now