lol i dont know what rockets fans expect, harden and howard are going to have high usage so they are going to be the most consistent producers, everyone else is kind of by commission, doesn't mean they aren't valuable contributors to a winning team. Parsons Lin Jones and Bev are heavily relied upon to support. Anything you get from casspi and dmo is bonus LOL
You idiots still don't understand how to use statistics, do you? Newsflash, morons: look at how the suns are coached and how the rockets are coached. For example: Dragic just took 13 shots today to get 23 points. Lin took 6 shots and netted 11 points. See the correlation? Look at how the offense runs through Dragic and Lin, respectively. Notice the difference? Even when Harden was out, do you feel that the Rockets utilize Lin the same way the Suns utilize Dragic? Not to mention Dragic has much more experience in the NBA than Lin at this point in their careers. I feel like talking to elementary school kids on this forum sometimes. For realz, some of you need to go back to 5th grade and re-learn math/reading comprehension. Also forgot to lol @ the use of "LOF" here. I understand it's not ok to be racist when posting and address "LOF" as Asians, so I get why it has to be used; doesn't remove the racist stench of this forum in general, though.
Why would anyone call himself dumb? If you are not a Rockets fan, you are definitely dumb by posting meaningless crap here.
Not to mention, Lin came through in the 4th tonight and Dragic disappeared. Dragic is a great player though.
So are you changing your tune from "Harden keeping Lin from being superstar" to "Rockets are keeping Lin from being superstar"? Hold one official position please. Don't move your stance around. Again, that's what Fox News does, moving goal post and changing directions. Don't be like that. It makes you sound stupid and ignorant.
Hi, can I ask you where you got those stats? I am wondering, because I had looked at the numbers and calculated them myself for Lin games sans Harden. What I got was a bit different: Lin without Harden per36: 19 points/ 5.5assists, with a TS% of .67. That is insanely high, and would put him at #4 in the entire league. If you put aside the fact that the sample size is very small and still treat this as a reasonable comparison, I would guess that a TS% of .67 for Lin probably more than makes up for the slightly lower per36 production compared to Dragic. I don't know how I got different stats from you, maybe because you included the Atlanta game where he played 4 minutes (which still should not affect the per36 numbers or TS% that much), or maybe I made a mistake, but you can check my numbers right here in this post (not posting assists because I got the same numbers as you): Game_Minutes_Points_FGA_FTA @Phi_49_34_19_6 Min_34_19_11_8 Mem_32_14_8_7 Dal_37_20_10_10 Sa_44_18_13_7 @Dal_37_18_14_0 Total Minutes=233 Total Points=123 Total FGA=75 Total FTA=38 PntsPer36=Total Points/Total Minutes * 36=123/233*36= 19.00 TS%=Total Points/(2*(Total FGA + .44*(Total FTA) ) )= 123/(2*(75+.44*(38)))=.67 Even I am surprised at these numbers.. and surprised that noone else had posted these up. Maybe that means I made a mistake in the calculation? lol Regardless, even assuming I made a mistake, don't your numbers still show him putting up pretty decent stats? They are certainly not failing. (and I know the sample size is small, but it was your decision to compare the numbers) I'm going to go on record and say that I do not agree with some of the other Lin fans who likes to put blame for Lin's less than stellar numbers on other players, or on the organization, in a way that is suggesting that others are holding Lin back intentionally and maliciously. That said, there is merit to the suggestion that Lin can potentially put up better numbers in a system where he can perhaps dominate the ball more... Panda23 made this point pretty well a couple days ago. This is noone's fault, it is simply what the situation is.
Well. Some of us didn't help the situation either. Before we accuse sb esle, we all need to look at the mirror ourselves and ask ourselves if we're better than them. Let me state once again. If you dislike Lin simply because of some of his fans, it is safe to conclude that you're no better either. If you're indeed Rockets fans as you all claimed, you should support all Rockets players as long ad they are members of the Rockets. You should root for their success and improvement. Period.
I really think we should all just chill over this - you can tell that the team really values Lin and he's really re-embraced his role - and...wait for it.....they're flipping winning!! :grin: PB&J Time Baby!
Thanks. Didn't even know there was such a cool site like that. Will definitely save me a couple minutes I had misinterpreted meh's post as meaning Lin's stats when Harden is not playing for the whole game. Still, the numbers provided in that link (for when Harden is off the court) includes the time Lin plays off the bench, often times with other bench players that are more inconsistent. Wouldn't that suggest that the defense can be allowed to focus on him more and probably result in a lower efficiency? I realize that it also means he would be playing against bench defense as well... but I strongly suspect that Lin is at his best when he gets to play with other starters but not when Harden is also on the court... for whatever reason. The numbers I posted above are still correct, they just show him being much more productive when he gets to be the focal point of the offense as a starter and without Harden. I think this is what a lot of Lin fans often mean when they suggest that Lin would do much better on another team where he was the primary ball handler.. I doubt many of them are suggesting Lin would do better coming off the bench of another team, even if he was the main guy off the bench. IMO the numbers I provided may be more reflective of what Lin fans are suggesting his potential could be. Btw, the stats for Dragic without Bledsoe does not show him significantly improving per36 (he is at 22 points, and TS% is the same). So I don't think Bledsoe is holding back Dragic's stats. But for certain Lin's stats are lower with Harden than without.
In case you missed my other posts, I have said many times I don't want Lin to be traded. You can find a couple of them in this thread alone. I like Lin in the sense that he is a hardworking kid. I respect that about him. I also feel he is a solid PG, just not a good one. I do not want him traded because 1) I feel like he is very valuable as a 6th man if he stays aggressive and 2) I highly doubt we will get anywhere close to "fair" value for him and I would rather us simply keep the guy than regress as a team.
Now that said, if he DOES get traded, I would gratefully welcome the migration of LoF's to a different site.
while i love Lin he can't be utilized to his full potential here and we could get more back then what he gives us now. he's 13/4 for us but for another team he could definitely be 18/8 if not more. it's unfortunate but the reality of the situation
The hard part is finding someone who wants him bad enough to give us back fair value. He is a very up and down young PG who has shown flashes of being great and equally very bad lows. Part of this is the fact that he is forced to play off the ball when he is playing alongside Harden and that does affect his efficiency. I honestly feel that Lin's true strength will come off being paired with an athletic big who can hit a midrange jumper. The sad part though is that in order to get such a player, we would have to trade him and Asik most likely, again leading back to finding a trade partner to begin with. Basically Lin is the type that would do great with a Duncan, Webber, Gasol, and Bosh type player. Scola would be fine too. Now if somehow land Millsap/Bosh/LMA type player without losing Lin or D-Mo/T-Jones develops into that player and we keep Lin, you can see him really attack, The biggest problem is that there is only one ball in the game. At any given time only one player can be handling that ball. On our team that is either Harden or Howard. Here is how Lin can solidify and expand his roles: 1. Look for slashing opportunities while Harden looks to penetrate 2. Look to sneak open while Harden and Howard run a PnR 3. Set screens for Harden and force defenders to pick their poison 4. Double screen with Lin on the perimeter and Howard on the elbow. This will free up Lin or Howard as long as Howard moves towards the base line and Lin moves toward the opposite way towards the perimeter. This can be a set play too with Harden inbounding to Lin and taking a hand off. 5. Take notes on Parsons game as he is a great off the ball player
Hence why there are many people here who believe Dragic is a better player than Lin. No one's saying Lin's not better without Harden. We're just saying that even if Harden's out of the equation, Lin's still not as productive as even the 2nd tier barely all-star PGs. In addition, many LOFs, and you can go back and check, have stated how Dragic would be bad if he played with a ball-dominant guard like Harden. When in reality he has shown to be just as good with Bledsoe and without him. No matter how you slice it, Dragic is a better player than Lin. And one does not have to personally hate Lin to make a statement like this.
Or maybe the state of the Suns offense is structured in a way that still allows Dragic to play a bigger scoring role regardless of whether he is playing alongside Bledsoe or not. I have not checked the stats, but I am guessing that Dragic has much higher FGA on average than Lin, even despite playing with another ball dominant guard. Regardless how many minutes Lin plays, IMO he cannot put up similar numbers as Dragic if he is making fewer shot attempts. Why he has fewer FGA is of course debatable, and people can say maybe he just plays too timid with Harden around... or maybe the Rockets just have so many good players that are great on offense, Parsons, Howard, TJones, and there's simply not enough shots to go around when Harden is also playing. I don't know... but this certainly does not seem to be a problem during the games when Harden is injured, and my stats for those (of course limited, small sample size) games show numbers that are on par with Dragic's. As for why Lin's numbers are not as high when you factor in all the other times that he plays when Harden is out (these are the numbers you provided... basically the numbers from my post + the stats from when Lin plays off the bench without Harden), don't you think Lin performs much better in the starting lineup, with all of these other threats on the floor that complement his game... but without Harden (the one starter whose skill-set makes Lin's much more redundant)? I mean, do you envision Dragic putting up similar per36 numbers if half of his minutes are being spent playing with more inconsistent bench players like Casspi, Dmo, etc.?
By the way, even though it may seem like I'm arguing in favor of the idea that Lin = Dragic I'm not. However, I do believe there is some limited data that suggests that scoring wise, and on a per36 basis, Lin may have the potential (if placed in the right situation) to reach Dragic. It's his other stats, TO's especially that I think are holding him back.
