1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

If you support a third party, you might be a national security threat!

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ari, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. Ari

    Ari Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,053
    Likes Received:
    22
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/fir...ers-expand-criteria-identify-militia-members/

     
  2. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    206
    I know this had little to do with your post subject...though just a sign of how crazy things have gotten....did'nt want to open a new thread about it, sorry.

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/090317/canada/canada_britishcolumbia_bc_borderprotectionism

    Canadian accused at U.S. border of 'stealing American jobs'

    VANCOUVER (CBC) - A B.C. sales representative who markets equestrian products in Canada was barred from crossing the U.S. border to attend a trade show last month by a U.S. Customs and Border Protection officer who accused him of trying to steal American jobs.

    "He looked at me, and in a yelling voice he said, 'You're friggin' stealing jobs away from American citizens,' and I tried telling him that I wasn't," Joel Borsteinas told CBC News.


    Borsteinas, a Canadian citizen, said he's been in business for 15 years, acting as a middleman between U.S. and Canadian suppliers of western wear and equestrian products and Canadian retailers who want to stock the products.


    He said he goes to the U.S. half a dozen times a year to attend trade shows and meet with suppliers who want him to market their products to retailers north of the border. They pay him a commission for every Canadian order he sends to them.


    On Feb. 26, Borsteinas said, he was on his way to a trade show in Oregon when he was pulled over at the border and questioned for an hour before being refused entry. He said he's never been stopped at the border before, and he said he always tells the truth about where he is going and why.


    "Anybody that buys off an American distribution company or an American manufacturer company has some sort of a liaison in Canada," said Borsteinas.


    "I'm creating American jobs. The (U.S.) companies that I actually work for I have been in touch with them all and they still think that this is absolutely crazy."


    Borsteinas said the border officer who refused to allow him entry to the U.S. was the supervisor on duty at the time at the Sumas crossing in southwestern B.C.


    "I said, 'Well, I don't actually bring the products in. I just write the orders. It's all in Canada,'" said Borsteinas.


    "He says, 'Oh, you are a consultant, then.' I says, 'No I'm just a salesman. I sell to Canadian stores.' And he says 'Nope, you are a consultant,'" said Borsteinas. "Once again, he says 'You are stealing jobs away from us.'"


    Borsteinas said he was then fingerprinted and sent back into Canada. The border officer warned him if he tried to enter the U.S. on business again, he should expect to be prosecuted.


    "He said if I ever come down to the U.S. again with the intentions of working, I will be arrested," said Borsteinas.


    A spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection says attending a U.S. trade show is not grounds for an officer to refuse entry to a salesperson representing U.S. companies in Canada. He said such representatives would only be breaking the rules if they tried to peddle the products on U.S. soil.


    "If they do all of their business in Canada, that's fine," said chief customs and border protection officer Thomas Schreiber. "If they are going down for a trade show, a business meeting, to go over a sales strategy with their umbrella corporation that's a permissible activity."


    Schreiber also said border officers aren't supposed to accuse anyone of trying to steal American jobs.


    "We would not be encouraging officers to editorialize on current events," said Schreiber. "There is no targeting of business people. There is no American protectionism, if you will.


    "If there is a traveller that thinks the questioning is inappropriate or unprofessional, whatever that questioning, we encourage them to report that."


    Kelly Rose Ivahnenko, field branch chief of the Customs and Border Protection office of public affairs, explained why a Canadian sales representative could be refused entry to the U.S.

    "Labour for hire is prohibited, and taking orders in the United States for a product produced in the United States is generally considered labour for hire," Ivahnenko said in an email sent to CBC News on Tuesday.

    "The U.S. is Canada's number 1 trading partner, and CBP is committed to securing our shared border while ensuring the facilitation of legitimate trade and travellers into the U.S.

    "That said, we have manifest standards for the importation of goods, and admissibility qualifiers for business travellers. To help raise awareness of that information and encourage compliance of these requirements, we encourage Canadians to inquire at the consulate about the various work authorizations available," Ivahnenko said.

    "The wagons get circled pretty quick when there's a downturn like this," said Craig Williams, vice-president of the B.C. division of Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters (CME), Canada's largest trade and industry association.

    Williams said CME members tend to encounter more difficulties at the U.S. border when there is an economic slowdown. He said the current discussion in Washington about "Buy America" provisions doesn't help.

    "I think it is part of an undercurrent of 'Buy America' that is happening in the United States right now," said Williams.

    "Unfortunately, it seems to be some of the sentiment that's coming out of the average guy on the street down there as their family members are losing jobs or they are having cutbacks or they read the newspaper every night. It's very discouraging and I think it sets a tone of fear."

    "I just hope its not a precursor for more," he added.

    U.S. immigration lawyer David Andersson said Borsteinas may still face problems trying to cross the border again, because he has now been flagged in the system.

    "If he didn't cross the border and his molecules stayed north of the 49th parallel, he would be fine, of course," said Andersson.

    Still, he said, Canadians paid by U.S. companies even if it's commissions earned in Canada could be found to be "working" in the U.S., if a border officer decided to interpret the rules that way.

    "There are people who are breaking regulations and rules and policy every day of every minute of the year," Andersson said. "[Border officers] are not immune to the news every day that comes out that thousands if not millions of Americans are losing their jobs so that if they become sensitized to that issue, it would be, of course, understandable, and that's probably what happened in this case."

    To Borsteinas, however, it's more personal.

    "It does affect my business," he said. "It doesn't matter if someone can email me the information that I'm going down to look at. It's still not the same as being there and meeting people and shaking hands."

    Borsteinas said he's now afraid to try to cross again. Ironically, he said, his U.S. suppliers will be hurt by lost sales in Canada if he isn't able to carry on with the business he spent years building.

    "Every time I take an order for a product somebody has to pack it, build it, ship it, and that all adds hours of work in the U.S. factories," he said. "I'm selling American product. And I'm working harder than I ever have at promoting these companies."


     
  3. Red Chocolate

    Red Chocolate Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    308
    Dey tuk 'er derbs!

    Yeah man, police state America is really getting nuts right now. Just read this:

    National Service Corps Bill Clears Senate Hurdle

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/23/national-service-corps-bill-clears-senate-hurdle/

    SEC. 125. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.
    ‘(a) Prohibited Activities- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities:
    ‘(1) Attempting to influence legislation.
    ‘(2) Organizing or engaging in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes.
    ‘(3) Assisting, promoting, or deterring union organizing.
    ‘(4) Impairing existing contracts for services or collective bargaining agreements.
    ‘(5) Engaging in partisan political activities, or other activities designed to influence the outcome of an election to any public office.
    ‘(6) Participating in, or endorsing, events or activities that are likely to include advocacy for or against political parties, political platforms, political candidates, proposed legislation, or elected officials.
    ‘(7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.

    First amendment anyone?
     
  4. cwebbster

    cwebbster Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    428
    **** that....I am a Ron Paul supporter......

    Never did I ever think I would be a threat to national security. This is disappointing.....what happened to our Constitution?
     
  5. rockbox

    rockbox Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    17,564
    Likes Received:
    4,450

    National Service Corp. This is the national government organized volunteer program. Of course they don't want volunteers to organize strikes and protest.

    First amendment? There is a thing call separation of church and state.
     
  6. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,600
    Likes Received:
    104
    At least all the people who don't see any problem will one day either be silent out of cowardice or see the problem out of regret.

    Any country that moves against freedom in the name of national security is bound to get more and more repressive.
     
  7. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    288
    I think I'm going to dig around and see if I have any Ron Paul bumper stickers left from the primary elections, and put one on my car. If that makes me a National Security threat, maybe we need more National Security threats.
     
  8. rjh2000

    rjh2000 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    The left wing communist party is the same in all countries that practice marxism, which at its core is men worhiping mankind and science.
    The man Hitler used the foolish of Germany to elect him much as the dem coms are fooled by false promises.
    Hitler also indoctrinated children in the government schools form some 10 years and brainwashed them and used community activism as one means to push his socialist marxist nazi agenda. The children wore brown shirts, hense brown shirt nazis.
    America’s democrat party is doing exactly the same thing he did before they did a hostile takeover of government after the man Hitler was elected.
    Those who do not know history are condemened to repeat it.
    And so it is today! And America’s little brainwashed government school indoctrinated neo nazis are following the same exact course.
    Devilish plan being perpetuated on the fools who profess to be wise.
    The left are the worst of fools and full of pride and arrogance. Their leaders know they are blind sheep
     
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    31,528
    Likes Received:
    8,957
    You don't have to join the National Service Corps.
     
  10. Red Chocolate

    Red Chocolate Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    308
    What if I want to? It worked out well for the people under Mao, Stalin, and Hitler. In before, "that could never happen here"
     
  11. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    31,528
    Likes Received:
    8,957
    The name "brown-shirts" comes from the SA, not the Hitler Youth or other children's organization. And, your bias shows when you cast Nazism as a left-wing totalitarianism. I do agree with you that communism has taken the form of deifying science. But, I am at a loss as to what all this has to do with the thread.
     
  12. Red Chocolate

    Red Chocolate Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    308
    Also some wording from a related bill, HR1444:

    http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1444/text

    From Section 4: Duties

    5) The effect on the Nation, on those who serve, and on the families of those who serve, if all individuals in the United States were expected to perform national service or were required to perform a certain amount of national service.


    (6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.


    Mandatory service eh? I thought involuntary servitude was forbidden in the Constitution.
     
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    31,528
    Likes Received:
    8,957
    :confused: If you want to join, go ahead. But, you'll be promising not to proselytize, protest, or several other things. I don't know why you'd say you'd want to join anyway if you think the National Service Corps is just a tool of totalitarianism. Shouldn't you be joining a militia or something instead?
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    31,528
    Likes Received:
    8,957
    This again? That clause is for the abolition of slavery.

    Please coordinate with Artesticle to form a class action suit against the US Government to block any mandatory service in the National Service Corps, abolish compulsory education and jury duty, and outlaw the draft.
     
  15. thunderclap

    thunderclap Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    First, Hitler was on the right side of the political spectrum. Extreme right. Just like you conservatives.

    Second, Bush was the one who eroded civil liberties. See Patriot Acts.

    Lastly, the people who are indoctrinated and brainwashed are the people who attend churches, mosque, synagogues, etc...
     
  16. Red Chocolate

    Red Chocolate Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    308
    Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    What am I missing?
     
  17. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    31,528
    Likes Received:
    8,957
    Don't start with likening American conservatives with Hitler. It's the same ad hominem impulse that makes people go to ridiculous lengths to cast Hitler as some sort of communist. In that same vein, I suppose it won't be long before conservatives cast Bush as some kind of closet-communist.

    Context.

    Add taxes to the list of things that you and Artesticle should fight. That's just involuntary servitude monetized.
     
  18. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    24,006
    Likes Received:
    5,734
    I'm fairly certain Ron Paul ran and is registered as a republican.

    Sorry. You're not as cool as you thought you were. Like it or not, he was not a 3rd party member, so you're not considered a threat.
     
  19. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    466
    you'll be one of the first we come for
     
  20. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    466

    Anyone else having a giggle that a black man is instigating this Hitler revolution?

    They’ve come a long way bay!
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now