If you know what I know, then why aren't you a Muslim too?

sorry if that was too harsh

I read this thread and it really triggered something in me, and I realized that was it.

 

I wanted to comment favorably on your post as an exception to the diatribe I made. I appreciate that there are many wonderful Muslims. One is a former business associate of many years, a Pakistani who has a charity for Pakistan burn victims that I support. I've had others, too. All good men.

But just as I hold Catholicism responsible, or Jerry Falwell, I hold Islam responsible for what it has foisted, what it has not controlled. When Christians in the US want to go to war, Christians in the US fight them. balance. I don't see that fight happening in Islam.


and it troubles me

 

If this is the case, then how come people can fly planes into buildings, kill thousands of people all in the name of "Allah" or "Islam" and then die in the process? If murder and suicide are sins, how do you go to the Ka'aba to get forgivness? Don't those suicide bombers think they will go straight to Heaven?

I can buy that the people doing the murders may believe in a twisted form of Islam or simply know that what they are doing is "wrong" (just like you smoke but know it's wrong). However, how can other Muslim's accept and even cheer these acts as "good" when they are clearly against the teachings of the Prophet? Clearly killing people who's only "sin" was to get to work early is wrong no matter what you feel about the U.S.

Like other religions, there are clearly many hypocritical Muslims. If you learn about other religions by watching the actions of the people who claim to espouse that religion than how can you expect people to think Islam is the RIGHT religion when so many of the most visible Muslims do so many evil things?

 

111chase111, Islam most certainly is not the "right" religion, because such a thing does not exist. It is for one to decide what is right and what is wrong. As for terrorism and Islam, they should not be confused as the same thing. The terrorist are the ignorant minority who use Islam to give reason to their actions. No where in the Quran does it say that one should resort to violence or vengence. Those who do such acts are thus bad Muslims (or not Mulsims at all). Those who support terrorist or their actions are themselves sinners.

It is true that Islam does forgive the sins of a man, but the sinner must act for forgiveness from God as well as any who have been harmed from the sin. Suicide is a major sin in Islam. What the terrorist did on 9/11 accounted for multiple sins...suicide, murder, twisting the teachings of Islam to ones benefit. Thus, there is no way anyone that was involved with 9/11 could ever be forgiven. If the terrorist had survived then they would have had to go to each and every family they caused pain to and ask for forgiveness. Islam does teach peace, but unfortunately the world sees a violent face of Islam rather than its actual peaceful nature.

 

the suicide bombers have a reading defeciency... many medical experts are trying to go to the source of the problem...

 

I understand all that you are saying however, the original post was something to the extent that if you studied all the religions in the world, how could you NOT be a muslim?

My answer is that if you live in the U.S., all you really see regarding Islam is the terrorists. Plus you see pictures and interviews of Muslims dancing in the streets and praising Bin Laden as a hero. If this is my exposure to Islam, why should I want anything to do with it?

Well then, some would say that you should study the religion and see what it REALLY says before you judge based on the actions of a few. Great idea but then again, if Islam is not really that way, then how come more Mulsim holy people don't come out AGAINST bin Laden? Are they scared? Or do they agree with him?

 

I don't connect it. They did.

And all the Muslims I saw who were celebrating in the streets of Copenhagen/Denmark when it happened sure did as well.

 

Sorry, but I heard that Muslims were celebrating all over Europe when it happened. Friends reported to me that they did it in Germany and I saw it myself in Denmark.

All I'm saying is that saying "Don't connect terrorism with Islam" is not correct.

The terrorists connected their acts with Islam - they did them in the name of Islam. And what worried me even more is that there were people (I am not saying all Muslims, but also not just a few) who celebrated what happened, and what connected them to the terrorists were that they were also Muslims.

 

Isn't that EXACTLY what you're saying here ... that your way is the right way, compared to the "EASIER" way of the Shias?!?!?

 

One difference is that those child-abusing priests use the opportunities that arise out of being within their organization (their church), but they do not claim they are furthering their religion's cause by doing what they do. The terrorist attacks, on the other hand, were committed specifically in the name of their religion - those who committed them believe they are justified because they are directed against "non-believers" and openly say so.

I am not saying that non-muslims don't commit terrorist actions - but again, the terrorist attacks recently committed by Islamic extremists were committed in the name of their religion. Currently, I do not know any other major religion in whose name terrorist acts are committed.

Obviously, I agree with that.

 

Sane

I am still waiting for your response to my question about your post concerning finding various combinations of words in the Koran. For instance you posted that the word for "day" is found 365 times. The Muslim calendar has 354 days. Why the discrepency?

Where did you find this information? I found a number of instances on the internet, but they were all parroting the same thing you did. I also found a couple of posts indicating the whole thing was a fabrication but their referencing documents were missing as well.

 

thanks for making my point and obviating the need for my further response

 

Here's the difference: how the membership is responding. Among Christians, the outrage about child sexual abuse is palpable. Almost to a person there is a commitment to root it out and punish it.

I see no outrage in Islam, no commitment to deal harshly with this extreme element that shames the whole religion, as sex abuse of children shames Catholicism.

I fault all religions for their failings, but no silence is as deafening as the occasional lip service given by Muslims worldwide to stopping the terror of extremists. Christianity has guys like that too, and we hunt them down and put them away ourselves.

My principal beef with Islam is that it talks of strength and peace, but has a big yellow streak down its back when it comes to policing its extremists. Until Islam deals more responsibly with its unruly children, it is difficult to take seriously discussions of what Islam really means.

 

The difference between Christianity and Islam is that I know how I will be judged and you dont. I will be judged by if I know Jesus Christ as my personal savior. He died on the cross for my sins and by no other way can I go to heaven.

If Muslims accept Christianity as a religion from Allah then obviously Allah is wrong because the foundation that these two religions are based on are completely different. You (as a Muslim) are judged by works and I (as a Christian) am not.

You totally contradict yourself here. One second you say dont think for a second that Muslims believe that the people who destroyed the WTC are going to heaven but in the very next sentence you say that it is being debated but no majority opinion has been reached. The fact that this subject is debatable is ridiculous and makes me look down upon Islam.

How Islam and terrorism is related was adequately discussed by Sir Jackie Chiles

I dont for a second believe that women in Arab countries are treated properly and you telling me that they are will not make me think otherwise. The atrocities that have been committed against women in that area of the world (by peaceful muslims ) is well documented and disgusting.

 

the fract that your bbs name is master baiter gives me no reason to belive you...

 

I'm sorry but rimmy was dead on in his assessment of you in this thread. You basically said if you believe in Islam you are better than another person believing in any other religion or an atheist. Every time a Christian or a person of a different faith chimed in, you had to pull out examples from the holy books of Islam to make the religion be the one man kind should strive for and ridicule other ones.

No religion is better or worse than any others. As someone who claimed to study a lot of religions, I am appalled you show so much ignorance to others. I'm coming across a lot nicer in this reply than I thought I would, because the way you made this thread into Islam is right and every other religion isn't especially in the first two pages, really ticked me off. I believe in christianity and I never would put down other religions or Islam, but you kept looking for reasons to do so in this thread.


"I still haven't heard from anyone about whether any other religion says why we exist. No one has told me that their religion clearly states why we're on earth, what's our reason for being."

This is a quote of yours in this thread. Do you really not think it smacks of arrogance and all I want to prove is my faith is better than your faith? How would you like it if I forced christianity down your throat in the manner you demonstrated with Islam in this thread?

I think it's great you believe in Islam and have a faith to keep you going during life, but it's great I'm a christian, and to be honest I don't know about the after life.

None of us do, until we die. But it's nice living my life with the optimistic view of heaven that religion offers.

I'm sorry, but you started the my religion is better than yours approach in this thread based on your replies to other posters with differing religions and I'm amazed you can't see it.

The bottom line is no religion is better or worse than any other in my opinion. To me religion is about having something you believe in and driving you throughout one's life. I don't believe you have to go to church to believe in God or be "a true Christian" and that same philosophy stands for all religions.

Plus it's nice to have a happy view of death to live one's life by if you ask me. I don't know what I believe about atheists, but I don't hate them nor try to demean their beliefs.

I think you meant well Sane but unintentionally you wanted to defend Islam so much it became a my religion is better than yours debate, and I'm sure I'm not the only person you angered in this thread.