If you know what I know, then why aren't you a Muslim too?

Sane I believe that Christians Islam as well. Sure there are Christians that don't acknowledge either.

I just want to try and give a more precise answer if I may.

I chose Christianity because to my mind almost all of the other things in all other religions could be thought up by men. Harmony, Doing unto others, eye for an eye, punishment for wrong, giving to charity, seeking knowledge and wisdom, etc.

The one thing that seems to be totally divine is loving your enemy, not answering violence with violence, giving more to some who steals one thing from you, etc. It's that kind of love that seems almost inhuman, or above human.

 

I gotta second that. As a Muslim, I find that almost comical. Just because you're born into it, doesn't mean you've been put on a higher platform than anyone else. If anything, you're more prone to answer at the end, because as you said you know it's the one right way, and you still choose to ignore the most basic of it's teachings.

As a Muslim, if you've actually read and researched, you'd know that praying is the ONE absolute must for a Muslim. Nowhere does it say "hey ... it's alright, you're a Muslim ... you're ok with me" Second is not to judge anyone ... what gives you the right to say ur belief is better than the next persons?

Following this logic, the guys who were out partying before flying the planes into the WTC were better than Christians, cuz hey ... at least they were Muslims. They weren't following any of the teachings, but thats ok ...

All these years I've been praying, fasting, doing what I think is right when in reality, I'm already set cuz I was born a Muslim. Makes perfect sense.

 

because you don't know anything. you think you know, which - to me - means absolutely nothing.

if it was as cut-n-dry as you say; if it was as blantantly obvious as you believe, then everyone would be Muslim. anyone could scour the Bible and count certain words and form equations like you did. anyone could take specific passages and make them seem prophetic (?). the fact that you're haven't convinced a single person should tell you something about the things you know.

you can study every religion under the sun, Sane, but you won't know a damn thing until the day you die.

 

But not the New Testament, which is the most central part of the Christian faith.

 

Some yes and some know. The Qu'ran actually talks about MAry's early life more than the bible. Unlike Judaism, the Qu'ran believes that Jesus was born from a virgin. So in some ways, parts of the new testament would be true providing the Qu'ran were true.

 

Nobody is 100% sure of anything.

But am I very sure of my religious beliefs? Yes. Can I be wrong? Absolutely. Do I have doubt about its validity? Sometimes, but mostly not.

I agree that how open you are depends on how sure you are. Even though I am not intellectually 100% sure, I can still have a lot of passion to convince others to believe it. Yet, I can still keep an open mind. I have learned a lot from Muslim people even though I still don't agree with some of the most fundamental things in their religion.

As to how I go about convincing people of my religion, I talk about it just like what we are doing. I see nothing wrong in a lively argument about each other's religion as long as it's done intelligently and respectfully.

Another aspect of "convincing" people cannot be done here, that is, living it out as a life attractive to be lived. As I said, religion is not just an intellectual exercise. It's a life lived, with purposes. If you see a religious person's life as something you want, then you'll be more seriously considering the intellectual part of it. This aspect cannot be done on a BBS other than superficially demonstrating how you react to different people's posts. But that is just a very small part of your whole life.

 

I'm a little late to this thread but here I go. I agree with Mrs. JB on this topic. Here is something else the buddha said:

Several citizens ran into a hot argument about God and different religions, and each one could not agree to a common answer. So they came to the Lord Buddha to find out what exactly God looks like.

The Buddha asked his disciples to get a large magnificent elephant and four blind men. He then brought the four blind to the elephant and told them to find out what the elephant would "look" like.

The first blind men touched the elephant leg and reported that it "looked" like a pillar. The second blind man touched the elephant tummy and said that an elephant was a wall. The third blind man touched the elephant ear and said that it was a piece of cloth. The fourth blind man hold on to the tail and described the elephant as a piece of rope. And all of them ran into a hot argument about the "appearance" of an elephant.

The Buddha asked the citizens: "Each blind man had touched the elephant but each of them gives a different description of the animal. Which answer is right?"

"All of them are right," was the reply.

"Why? Because everyone can only see part of the elephant. They are not able to see the whole animal. The same applies to God and to religions. No one will see Him completely." By this parable, the Lord Buddha teaches that we should respect all other ligitimate religions and their beliefs.

"Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble."
- Joseph Campbell

BTW, If you see the Buddha, kill him.

 

Excellent.

 

Is this a metaphor or fact?

 

I was trying to give as succinct an answer to your original question as possible and in so doing decided to jump straight to the heart of why I accept Christianity. There are, of course, things we both agree are true but there are some significant differences in our beliefs as well. For example, when I refer to the Bible I am refering to all the books in the Old Testament and all the books in the New Testament. Another point of difference is that I do not believe that the Qu'ran is inspired by God or that it is God given, nor do I accept the idea that Mohamed was his prophet.
I never stated or meant to imply that I found Islam to be logical or correct - I did not find that.
What I specifically wanted to comment on (granted I made this point rather forcefully) was that if I am brutally honest with myself as I look at all the laws and requirements for righteousness spelled out in the Bible, I don't measure up to that standard. And you've admitted you don't measure up to the standard set out in Islam either. And in my studies of Islam the best one seems to be able to hope for is that God will forgive all of our sins even though he is just. What Christianity teaches is that in order for God's justice to be satisfied, those sins need to be paid for. The reason God is able to forgive sins is not because he is just nice to Christians but because God himself has paid for those sins for all those who will accept that payment.

I don't see any sort of parallel explanation for a belief that God forgives sins in Islam. Maybe there is one that you could explain to me.

 

Sorry, I can't resist....

Whoever we are
Wherever we’re from
We shoulda noticed by now
Our behavior is dumb
And if our chances
Expect to improve
It’s gonna take a lot more
Than tryin’ to remove
The other race
Or the other whatever
From the face
Of the planet altogether

They call it the earth
Which is a dumb kinda name
But they named it right
’cause we behave the same...
We are dumb all over
Dumb all over,
Yes we are
Dumb all over,
Near ’n far
Dumb all over,
Black ’n white
People, we is not wrapped tight

Nurds on the left
Nurds on the right
Religous fanatics
On the air every night
Sayin’ the bible
Tells the story
Makes the details
Sound real gory
’bout what to do
If the geeks over there
Don’t believe in the book
We got over here

You can’t run a race
Without no feet
’n pretty soon
There won’t be no street
For dummies to jog on
Or doggies to dog on
Religous fanatics
Can make it be all gone
(I mean it won’t blow up
’n disappear
It’ll just look ugly
For a thousand years...)

You can’t run a country
By a book of religion
Not by a heap
Or a lump or a smidgeon
Of foolish rules
Of ancient date
Designed to make
You all feel great
While you fold, spindle
And mutilate
Those unbelievers
From a neighboring state

To arms! to arms!
Hooray! that’s great
Two legs ain’t bad
Unless there’s a crate
They ship the parts
To mama in
For souvenirs: two ears (get down!)
Not his, not hers, (but what the hey? )
The good book says:
("it gotta be that way!")
But their book says:
"revenge the crusades...
With whips ’n chains
’n hand grenades..."
Two arms? two arms?
Have another and another
Our God says:
"there ain’t no other!"
Our God says
"it’s all okay!"
Our God says
"this is the way!"

It says in the book:
"burn ’n destroy...
’n repent, ’n redeem
’n revenge, ’n deploy
’n rumble thee forth
To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side
’cause they don’t go for what’s in the book
’n that makes ’em bad
So verily we must choppeth them up
And stompeth them down
Or rent a nice french bomb
To poof them out of existance
While leaving their real estate just where we need it
To use again
For temples in which to praise our god
("cause he can really take care of business!")

And when his humble tv servant
With humble white hair
And humble glasses
And a nice brown suit
And maybe a blond wife who takes phone calls
Tells us our God says
It’s okay to do this stuff
Then we gotta do it,
’cause if we don’t do it,
We ain’t gwine up to hebbin!
(depending on which book you’re using at the
Time...can’t use theirs... it don’t work
...it’s all lies...gotta use mine...)
Ain’t that right?
That’s what they say
Every night...
Every day...
Hey, we can’t really be dumb
If we’re just following god’s orders
Hey, let’s get serious...
God knows what he’s doin’
He wrote this book here
An’ the book says:
He made us all to be just like him,"
So...
If we’re dumb...
Then God is dumb...
(an’ maybe even a little ugly on the side)

From Frank Zappa with love...

 

nice response

I am troubled when I hear anyone talk of there only being one right religion or path. That thought is the kernal from evil and hatred grow and envelope otherwise decent people. Forget Islam, let's talk Christianity. It's splitting in a half dozen ways right now, and yet some within it are confident everyone else in the world is hell bound.

I think it was Twain who said "God created man and man returned the favor." true dat

To the original poster I would suggest that if you had grown up in Virginia, born an anglo or black, you'd probably be convinced that Jesus was the only way. ain't that something?

 

I'm still trying to figure out how to do this.

That supposes that there is a heaven in which only those who follow certain rituals here on Earth will be allowed to enter. Based upon the spiritual fantasy team the person picks and bets on, their eternal fate is decided. allegedly.

To me, that is an absurdity. But God, I've been good. I was just born at the wrong longitude and latitude. I learned what they taught me. NO. BURN YOU BASS-TARD.

 

I like Buddha's "finger and moon" metaphor. But if your goal is the moon, don't you think you need to make sure the finger is indeed pointing to the moon rather than a big cheesecake?

 

I am Muslim. You must understand that there are many different types of Muslims. There are the exoteric (meaning a strict constructionism of the Quran, evident in countries like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Malaysia, Syria, and Afghanistan) and the esoteric (loose constructionism of the Quran, evident in Dubai and Iran).

The Shia Muslims (or Shiites) follow the esoteric way. While, the Sunni Muslims follow the exoteric ways. A 1000 years ago both sects would have had very little differences in their life styles.

However, today the times have changed and the world has progressed. The Quran is very broad in its words. The Sunni's take these words for their literal meaning, the same way a Sunni would a 1000 years ago. The Shia takes the words and interprets it in terms of today's changing times.

This is why many Sunni dominated states have fallen so far behind the rest of the world. A 1000 years ago the Muslims were a very bright and talented people, making many scientific and mathematical discoveries. Today, the people of those regions are forbidden to practice simple things we take for granted such as music and television.

The only way the Muslims of these countries will ever catch up with the rest of the world is if all Muslims unite. The Sunni must take up the esoteric interpretation of the Quran. The Shia must accept the Sunni as brothers, then the Muslims will once again gain respect in the eyes of the world.

 

during the time the prophet pbuh was getting his revelations, the arabian penninsula was all full of nomadic herders not knowing what the hell they were doing... During the peek of the islamic empire, about 500 years later was when there was a abundance of scientific knowledge. SO during the time of the prophet they had no idea what the big bang was, how a baby scientifcly came out, and much more...

 

becasue MAN isnt perfect...

 

welll tell christian missionarys in many muslim countries that they dont like getting preached down like our religion is inferrerior ...

 

I dont know which brand of Muslims beleive in this, but according to them, Gabriel delivered it to the wrong person(Mohammed), while it was really supposed to go to Ali...Why the different views?

 

In today's world, Islam stands for violence, the inferior treatment of women, and a generally bad attitude towards everyone else.

Islam keeps saying it is about peace, but there is simply no evidence of it. Wherever there is a homocide bomber, there's a Muslim wearing it. Trouble in the world? Look for the Muslims.

And note to all Muslims: I'm sick of the Jew hating. Yall say "zionist" like rednecks say [the n word]. So much hate. If Islam means "peace" how come everyone thinks it means "hate?"

I don't believe Islam is evil, but I do believe Islam has been weak and complicit in the terrorism of its progeny. Islam forments millions to hatred of all things western, all things infidel.

If those of you who are Muslim want to show your faith, do it some other way, because you are not convincing here. You evidence the same kind of annoying, self righteous in ignorance attitude that permeates every voice coming out of Islam. Smug. Piously self satisfied.

When Islam stands up and puts a stop to this, I'll respect it. Right now, it's right down there with the Pope and his child molesting minions.