If you know what I know, then why aren't you a Muslim too?

Man, I can tell you, she's not exaggerating either!

 

Further note to self:

The above post matters not in this thread because of aforementioned Muslimity permeating the inner recesses of the hard drive.

 

oops...I am dumb. the above post negates me. whimper.

 

Sane, if you don't believe Christianity is the one "True Religion", then I pity you. As you yourself used "mathematical proof" to support your argument, I will counter thusly :

In the Bible, specifically in the Book of Revelations, Chapter 13, verses 16-18 is the following quote :

Almost 2 millennia ago, this was prophecied in the Bible. It has finally come to pass...

Adding the numbers 66, 73, 76, 76, 71, 65, 84, 69, 83, 1, 1, 1 you obtain the number 666. "Big Deal!" you say, "what do those numbers have to do with anything?!"

The computer industry uses a chart called an ASCII chart which was invented over 5 decades ago. In this chart, numbers represent characters. See here.

Now if we attach the ASCII numbers with their corresponding letters, we get 66=B, 73=I, 76=L, 76=L, 71=G, 65=A, 84=T, 69=E, 83=S....

My God! That gives us Bill Gates! But what of the last 3 digits - all "1"'s? He is the third of that name in his family, or using Roman numerals - Bill Gates, III.

So you see, the Bible long ago predicted that Bill Gates is the Antichrist. The quote "to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark" obviously is the licensing agreements that Microsoft used with its distributors to put a monopolistic choke-hold on the industry.


Sorry... oldie, but goodie...

 

Sane,

I'm late to this thread (as always ). I think you ask a good question.

Most people come to their faith by family background, both positively and negatively. Positively, some people accept the faith passed down from their parents. This doesn't mean that all of these people have not examined the validity of their faith at some point in their lives. I myself belong to this group.

Negatively, some people see the flaw of the religious lives of their parents and reject them. They come out of it and "choose for themselves." There are also some people who do not have strong religious upbringing one way or another. They, too, must choose for themselves. Little do these people know that nobody really can choose for oneself without the influence, positively or negatively, of his/her background upbringing, the popular culture, etc.

I have yet met a person who have thoroughly studied all religions and "decide" purely rationally which faith or unfaith to choose. I am very confident that I'll never meet one, because it is practically impossible. To thoroughly understand a religious faith, you not only have to study it. You have to live it. How can you study and live all the major religions in one lifespan? It is not only impossible. It's probably not the wisest thing to do.

But that doesn't mean that we should not try our best to understand other people's religions WITH AN OPEN MIND as much as we have a chance to do so. Many of the more liberal people claim that they are open-minded but in fact are very closed-minded about religious beliefs. There are blind faiths. And there are blind unfaiths.

That said, I am with you that there can only be one ultimate reality. And religion is supposed to understand that reality. Hence, all religions cannot be right. In fact, the liberal religious people in the 20th century, after decades of ecumenical effort, have found that it is a dead end. There are differences between religions at the very fundamental level. If one is right, others cannot be.

My advocate of open-mindedness is not in the same spirit of those who say, "Since religion is a personal matter, whatever you believe is OK" as if religious choice is something akin to choosing fashion styles. Whatever you believe is not OK if you believe wrongly. That's why you need to keep an open mind because your faith can be wrong. Keeping an open mind while disagreeing is the strongest respect you can show to other people's faith. The "whatever is OK" view actually encourage close-mindedness.

 

sane -- while people around the world...particularly in America..should do a better job of learning and understanding the tenets of Islam...you, too, should seek a better understanding of Christianity. Mischaracterizing my faith gets us no further in conversation.

There is no renewal of faith...it is the same. Jesus said he came to fulfill the law...the same law he expected us to live by. He explained the law more fully...pointed out our sinful nature and our inability to follow that law...God's unwillingness to accept anything that isn't holy...and then laid his own life down as a sacrifice for us...very much in the old Jewish tradition of blood sacrifice to cover sin. Jesus may have expounded on the law...and certainly gave us a better understanding of God the Father...but the principles remain the same.

 

Sane, do you use AIM/ICQ? I need to contact you outside the BBS.

 

NLP Fan --

does the NLP in your name, by chance, stand for neuro-linguistic programming??

just curious.

 

Don't do it. John Ashcroft will be on you like white on rice. (I hope that's still a joke, though in truth I'm slightly scared it may not be.)

 

NLP does stand for neuro-linguistic programming. Anyway, Sane, I need to contact you about Islam and I don't want to give away my email or my screen names. Will you post a screen name?

 

are you a student of NLP?? i worked for a communications and public relations training firm before entering law school. i found NLP to be fascinating. what's your involvement with it.

 

As the name states, I am just a fan.

 

Sane

I wanted to make sure you didn't miss this and would address it:

I assume that the significance of Al-Yahom (Day) as being 365 applies to the number of days in a year. Why wouldn't that number be 354 since that is the number of days in a 'Muslim Year'?

 

Sane,

You are a sweetheart but you are way too emotional to continue playing the game.

 

Sane
I think it`s great that you are so dedicated to Islam but please dont preach down to people. I am a Christian and IMHO Islam is not "THE" religion although I respect your right to believe what you believe.

 

Sane, could you help me with a little logic problem here?

You say muslims accept the bible as holy and from Allah just as
they accept the Quran and Haddiths, but there is a glaring disagreement between the two. You call Jesus a prophet, but not God.
Jesus says in the Bible, "Before Abraham was, I am."
Religious leaders of that time wanted to kill Him for making this claim, because they understood He was proclaiming Himself as God. If Jesus could mouth such a blasphemy, how can Islam consider Him a prophet of Allah?
If you say the Bible was mistranslated or in error, how can you claim it as a holy book? It is the same as stating Allah was in error or not in control, isn't it?
The Bible also claims access to paradise through the grace of God, "not by our own works, lest anyone should boast,", but the Quran clearly describes access to paradise if your good deeds outweigh your bad deeds, as judged by Allah. This clearly is the opposite of your friend's "It's better to be a muslim and do nothing, than a Christian who lives a good life," statement.

These are basic tenets of the Christian belief that we take from the Bible (that Jesus is Lord and that we can't do anything to earn our own salvation), yet the Quran says that they are false.
How can both books be holy yet contradictory?

 

But how do you convince someone that their spiritual beliefs are wrong? The only true way for you to prove they are wrong is for them to die and find out first hand and by then either it doesn't matter or it's too late to do anything about it. Do you keep an open mind about your religion being wrong as you tell others to do? If you have any doubt at all about its validity then how can you try to convince others to believe it if you're not 100% sure yourself?

 

I'm a Muslim and what you just said is complete bullsh*t. How are you a Muslim if you don't "pray, fast, or do anything"?? Just by telling people you're a Muslim, when you don't follow any of Islam's teachings?? How is that worse than being a Christian??

 

Sane, I hate it when people try to put their religion above others' beliefs. That's what it seems to me you are trying to do here, even though your initial post seems to ask a rather innocent question, you later revert to trying to look down on other people's beliefs. Ultimately, this is implied in your question "why aren't you a Muslim, too". Doing this is the breeding ground for intolerance.

Some misguided muslims have recently been taking their belief in their religion to the extreme and it was part of their justification for killing many people.

Now, before this gets into a debate on which religion was worst in terms of being used as a pretense for killing people (it happened with Christianity, too, I know, and I know some intolerant Christians), let me just answer your question:

I know that Islam is the current religion which is most abused by terrorists to justify their killing of people. For me, this is already a sufficient reason not to be a Muslim. I know that it is not necessarily the non-violent Muslims' fault that these crazy people do this. But still, it is enough of a reason for me that I would never CHOOSE to be a Muslim. Also, I don't like the lack of separation of state and religion in many islamic states. I also think the archaic legal system with punishments such as chopping off hands etc. is not acceptable. Also, I am sorry to say that many of the Muslims I have met in Germany are very intolerant towards other religions and they try to force their way of life on the majority instead of trying to be good guests/immigrants and trying to adapt to the country whose guests they are. Not all of them, but many, believe me. Oh, and not to mention the treatment of women in Islamic states, it is also not acceptable to me.

I am sure there are many good sides to the teachings of the Koran (sorry if I am spelling it incorrectly). However, for the reasons given above, I would never choose to be a Muslim.

I don't even want to go too much into the details of your posts, but:

"I mean, that IS the case, but only one religion will be the "right" one in the end, right? We agree on that, don't we?"

No, I don't agree. Why do you assume that people should agree with you on that?