So if we do get him, we will mainly just not have him for this summer, and he might miss a few games in september? Will we get him next off-season?
You've made this assertion several times now, TexasG. I'd like to see you provide a reference backing this up. I'm Chinese (living in California), and have followed the Yao Ming situation pretty closely through the Chinese press. Every single informed article I've ever read has been united in suggesting that Yao's commitments to the National Team this season will be over after the Asian Games. The 2002 Asian Games end October 14, 2002. The NBA season doesn't start until the very end of October, start of November. That means there are two weeks between the end of Yao Ming's commitments to the Chinese national team (assuming they make it to the championship as expected) and the start of the NBA season. Now, again, where did you read that Yao Ming would miss the "first two months of the season?" If the first game of the season is (approximately) November 1st, missing the first two months of the season mean that he's not available until January the 1st. That is so, absolutely, categorically, and totally untrue... I'm just truly thankful you aren't in charge of this franchise. As far as commitments go, I just thought I'd point out that Wang Zhizhi has missed "all" of two summer camps, so far. That's not exactly a particularly representative sample of what to expect into the future. I don't think anyone was particularly disturbed that, say, Tim Duncan might be needed by the USA during the Summer Olympics 2004... so what's the difference with Yao Ming? Menk Bateer of the Denver Nuggets left his CBA team *mid-season*, even as they were pursuing a league championship. That by itself should show the first priority of the Chinese sports administration: developing their players, and the system, for international competition. Yao Ming will be playing in the United States by October 21st, 2002. That's a very well informed prediction.
Because China has already done it. Have you guys realized that Wang has been in the NBA for 3 years now? He has yet to be allowed to participate in a training camp with the Mavs. As a matter of fact China has also said that they may not let him ever come back to the NBA because he's upset he has to play on their National Team. He would rather be in training camp, and work on his game in the Summer Leagues. Regardless of what anyone says there is a big risk with Yao Ming. If the Rockets want to draft him then that's fine. It really doesn't effect me either way because I'm a Mavs fan. I just hate to see what you guys are going to go through once this guy joins your team. I really do hope though that it does work out for the Rockets but if it doesn't ... just remember I told you so.
Can't vouch for the validity of this, but a very excellent first post nonetheless. Welcome to the board.
"All" of two training camps are not that important to a second round pick, you're right about that. However Yao Ming will be the #1 overall pick in the situation we're talking about. There is a BIG difference between a 2nd rounder and #1 overall pick. #1 overall picks are generally franchise type players, not bench warmers. So every training camp, and summer league game is very important to the development of that player. Every camp, and summer league game missed not only hurts Yao's developement but also hurt the Rockets. Don't get me wrong, Yao's talent is not the question here it's what is he going to do for the Rockets. Would the Rockets be better off trading the pick? In my opinion, yes.
Look dude open your freekin eyes and look. You say there is no evidence! Email Mark Cuban and ask him yourself if that wording was in Wang's contract. Stop lying to yourself because you know there is plenty of evidence! If you wan't to say that the Rockets have a chance to work out all of those problems with Yao then fine but don't try to mislead people by saying that there is no evidence to support that statement and that it is all just media propaganda. No evidence my ASS!
First off, he has only missed one while under contract. Secondly, Dallas signed a special contract with Wang that the NBA attorney's had to OK since it wasn't a Uniform Player Contract. That is my whole point. We don't have to sign that contract. Dallas chose to. If we draft him, and China demands special considerations regarding playing time, and we don't sign that bulls1t, Ming does not play in the NBA. That is a huge bargaining chip to get them to sign a standard rookie scale contract. There is very limited negotiations allowed in rookie scale contracts, that was settled in the NBA Lockout. btw: here is all the big todo about Wang....this sounds like Nellie manipulating free agency.
And here is an article from the Washington Times that describes the brand new "Yao Rule" imposed on pro athletes abroad. I'm sorry, if this is what is scaring everyone about Wang, read it again. This is just purely about money. It actually sounds more like China is literally banking on Yao being a commodity to give us. <a href="http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20020517-4591524.htm">Chinese defend heavy taxes on pro exports </a> Just like Will said in his thread, this is one league trying to get compensated monetarily by another. This does not sound like a Communist Govt holding Ming Hostage. Where do you get that propogandist paranoia. I just haven't read it ANYWHERE. TexasG, your argument appears paranoid, only. crash, Go read Heech's first post on the previous page. Argue with him about evidence!! I don't see any evidence but a bunch of recycled quotes and the special contract that Dallas signed with Wang. We don't have to sign such a contract. We have a bargaining chip. Read the link above, and tell me the CBA does not want to profit off of Yao.
HP, I agree 100% that the CBA is greedy and wants to profit from Yao. I agree with you on that. I also think the government wants to profit as does everyone that can find a way to get their sig on the contract. If the Rockets can give the CBA and who ever else enough money to passify them in such a way to let Yao make his home in Houston then fine, but aren't their rules that keep us from sending the CBA or anyone in China a truck load of money to bribe them into letting us have Yao? Answer me this HP, will it bother you or piss you off if Rudy and CD draft Yao and then we don't get to have him with the team until after the start of the season?
Uh... ... the reason Wang Zhizhi (and Mengke Bateer) were held back until mid-November last year is because of the Chinese National Games (kind of a domestic Olympics for the various provinces), held once every 4 years. The tournament this fall will the Asian Games, a totally different event held over a different time period. I have no idea why you think this is relevant to the Yao Ming situation. Let me recap: - Wang Zhizhi finished up November 20th, 2001. He was suiting up for Dallas by December. - Yao Ming will finish up by October 14th, 2002. He will suit up for (Houston?) by... ? Obviously it's preferable that Yao Ming could get in training camp sooner; it's a great chance to start the learning process. But then again, as most here seem to recognize, any 21-year old draft-pick is going to take years to learn. With all due respect, missing two weeks is a pretty minor issue considering that Rudy will have him for the following 3 seasons to mold. Also, as Yao Ming gets older, he fortunately gets graduated out of some of the sillier Chinese tournaments he'd normally be expected to participate in... the World University Games, etc... His primary commitments to the National Team will be the Olympics and the Asian Games. I wouldn't even be surprised if the National Games are rescheduled, in 4 years, to better adjust their schedule. And while we're talking about Chinese athletes playing internationally, remember there are (afaik) 3 Chinese soccer-players playing in the Premier League and Germany. All have sizeable contracts that are comparable to Yao Ming's rookie contract. None of them have had any "problems" with the Chinese government some in the US are obssessed over. Oh, and one last/final point... (I have a feeling I might have to repeat these over the next few days, so you guys feel free to repeat them for me ): Wang Zhizhi's contract with Dallas expires this summer. The rumors coming out of Dallas he may not be allowed to return are strictly politicking in an attempt to scare other NBA teams from going after the guy. There's not a *word* coming out of China, otherwise, that would suggest Wang Zhizhi will not be playing in the US next season as well.
Excellent first post, heech. Welcome indeed. Hope you keep giving us your take on Ming. Heypartner is right on this one, imho, and some of you guys need to chill and let the dust settle a bit. This is all great! We're just starting to get the gust-front of a media blitz we haven't experienced here in a long while. We'll be hammered left and right by folks with their own agenda. Just lay back, find your g-spot, and enjoy the ride... unless your a Mavs fan (lol!). Seriously, this is a great time to be a Rocket fan and I find Yao very intriguing. Maybe we'll pick him and maybe we don't. Maybe we pick and trade... whatever happens, isn't it outstanding to have the Rocks in the cat-birds seat for once? It hasn't been this exciting since the Sampson/Dream drafts. It's all good!
heech, Wang has never perticapated in any off season work outs in Dallas. Wang has never made the first month of the season. Wang can be brought back to China any time China wants to bring him back. It is in the contract. Here is one question and answer from a Mark Cuban interview: Q: Is it worth the hassle to deal with the Chinese government to re-sign him, and have him report late every season because of his obligations to his Chinese team? A: For a while, yeah. But not forever. And you can do that with your 10th guy. But you can't do it with someone you depend on. Here is the link: http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/basketball/mavs/stories/051902dnspomavscubanqaa.195f4.html Take that for what it is worth but I live in Dallas and know for a fact that Wang has made no off season work outs and is not expected back with the team by the start of the season regardless if he is signed or not. BTW don't you think players make some of their most important improvements during their teams off season programs? Do you think training camp is useless? Don't you think that since Yao has not played at this level of compitition before that it might be especially important for him to make the off season programs and training camp?
Thanks for the welcome guys. I'm pretty amazed at how perfectly decent most seem on this site... not used to that from a sports BBS. To respond to Crash's points, I actually have no idea whether his contract will (can? should?) include a clause that *allows* China to recall him. But I will say I wouldn't be surprised if such a clause was requested. But I also believe there's little chance such a clause would be abused. (That's not to say it may not be used...) You guys have to understand that as badly as you want to be sure you have a successful #1 pick here, 1.3 billion Chinese (slight exaggeration... I'm sure some in the borderlands are too busy herding sheep to care) are *fervent* about seeing Yao Ming play, and succeed, in the NBA. Anything that seriously hurt Yao Ming's career would be a public-relations nightmare inside China. The Rockets will have a great negotiating position; they can speak directly to the Chinese people: "The Shanghai Shark organization is making it impossible for us to depend on Yao Ming as a long-term player...", and trust that'd create great domestic pressure on the Sharks. That's all for now; back to work. Maybe I'll pick up some boot-leg Yao Ming Houston Rockets jersey when I'm in China later this summer!
what is that saying about those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it? Ah who cares.
We are learning from history. Wang signed a contract with Dallas that allowed him to be jerked around like that. If Yao is taken No. 1, he will NOT be signed to such a deal, and other than the first summer, he WILL work out with the Rockets.
Yea, I'd agree with youl. There's no doubt that Wang Zhizhi would've progressed much further if he could play during the summer leagues and participate in the training camps. This year isn't going to be one where he gets to do that, but I hope it does happen, and happens soon. And yea, Yao Ming would benefit greatly from the same type of seasoning. But, I also think you're exaggerating some of the effects. Did guys like Gasol/Kirilenko come out of the summer camps playing well? Or did they pick it up over the course of the season? The Houston management would be irresponsible if it didn't talk to the Chinese sports authorities in *detail* about what kind of commitments will be placed on Yao Ming over the off-seasons. But I would predict that the tremendous interest in China in seeing Yao succeed means that Houston will be able to get favorable (but still requiring compromise) terms. I just don't think there's any point in exaggerating the doom effect of what *might* be asked of Yao Ming. We'll find out soon enough, but I have my fingers crossed Yao might even be allowed to play in the NBA summer leagues this year.
