The Kings averaged 101.7 points a game this past season and Webber @ 27.1. The Rockets averaged 97.2 points a game with Francis @ 19.9, Cat @ 19.5, Taylor @ 13.0 and Dream @ 11.9 Composite projections for 2001-2002 with Webber on board and Dream resigned. Team averages 99 points a game: Webber 25 Francis 18 Cat 17 That is 60 points between the 3 top offensive players and leaves 39 points for Dream, Small Forward and the bench. Figure 8.5 points for the starting SF (Shandon was 8.7) and that puts the team with 30.5 points to distribute. Moochie and the other reserves for 20 points a game and that leaves Dream at 10.5 to average for the season. He wasn't happy averaging 11.9, so how will even less be palatable? Mango ------------------ Get it right or just don't do it! Resistance is futile....you will be assimilated. Start more Webber threads!
HP- If we do get KVH to play the 3. We would have another liability on defense. Wait a minute, I see. The new rules could easily benefit the new look Rockets. Franchise Cat KVH MO Dream or/and Antonio Davis Two guards that shoot and drive. Two forwards that can shoot or post up. Centers that can step out and shoot and rebound. On defense we play a zone. Long arms do definitely help. ------------------ Fuggetabout it
Actually I heard that a long while ago, and frankly I think there may be still be some substantial validity to it. Keep this in mind: 1. Miller is a commodity that can be easily kept or moved. 2. When things like this are for real, the players involved are not necessarily the same as the players that will stay where they are sent. So the fact that Miller may not seem to be easily assimilated into present Sacramento society, doesn't mean they cannot immediately trade him elsewhere for a sizable gain (M&M has a ton of potential and has a big following), or make a major move and trade someone presently on the King's roster to make room for M&M. PS: A lot of things are telling me that Jason won't be in a "Crown Uni" next year, and Divac will be half the player that they need at the pivot, particularily if Webb goes. Turgo is a luxury they may have to use/sell/trade to get some replacements to beef up their starting line up. The Kings will be making some major changes. This is the single most distinguishing and positive arguement when the talk starts between whether the Kings will ever accept a S&T for Webb or will they deny him that request. I see some bigtime turnover of personnel. And, let's face it, if Dub goes, Jason goes, and a couple other changes occur, Free Agents will not be beating the door down to get to Sacramento. It makes anyone's plea (Rockets or otherwise) for a Sign and Swap that more compelling to thge Kings. HeyP That infectious optimism you feel is just the humidity affecting your sinuses again. Blow your nose! Cheers ------------------
This story reinforces Oeilpere's info. http://news.excite.com/news/ap/010518/18/bkn-nets-draft-lottery Thorn said the Nets need a lot of things in the draft to turn the team around. "Number one, we need to increase our talent pool," Thorn said. "Hopefully, we'll be lucky enough and smart enough to pick someone who can help us." New Jersey, which will also have the 35th pick in the two-round draft, could use either a center, a backup point guard, a small forward who can score and possibly a shooting guard, if Kerry Kittles cannot return after missing last season while rehabilitating from knee surgery. While there isn't a sure-shot No. 1 pick, the player pool for the draft is deep, with a record 75 players applying for early entry, including All Americans Troy Murphy of Notre Dame and Joseph Forte of North Carolina. Shane Battier of national champion Duke heads the seniors, while there is a strong group of big players making the jump from the high school ranks. "I could not tell you, and I think if you spoke with five different teams, they would probably tell you the same thing, there is no consensus No. 1 pick here," Thorn said. "I could name six guys who could be the No. 1 pick, depending on who has it." ------------------ [This message has been edited by Hottoddie (edited May 19, 2001).]
I like these little games. I don't think Francis or Mobley will average less than 20. My projection would be: The team averages 101 points. Webber 23 Francis 20.5 Mobley 20 Dream 11 I know that only leaves 26.5 points for the starting SF and the bench, but that should be OK. I really hope that Dream stays, if we sign Webber or not. Also, I hope that Cato, Walt and Shandon will be gone.
oily, Any word on how the rockets plan to attack the zone? I think the rockets scoring will only drop to about 95 ppg with webber and more without. Webber's scoring will drop to around 22ppg with the zone. I see Mobley's scoring jumping up to 21 or 22 as he'll get more fast break baskets and reap the rewards from Francis and webber attracking the zone's attention. It would not surprise me if Mobley was in the top ten in scoring next year as he has the tools to break the zone and the sheer ego to do it even if he lacks the tools. Francis scoring will be erratic as he adjust to all the zones teams throw at him. ------------------
Since teams know the Rockets are a guard oriented team, I wonder what kind of zones they will use. Can any of the rules experts out there tell me if the college/highschool type zones (2-1-2, 2-3) would be allowed under the new rules? ------------------
TPL, Any defense is legal as long as the goalie doesn't sit in the paint for 3 seconds without guarding anyone. ------------------
Keith Van Horn in a Rocket uni? LOL.. Guys lets use some sense here. Why pick up a 6'10 player for in the three position that has not shot 45% in his career? Not exactly the type of shooter i want to have against a zone defense. I'm not versed on how much he makes a year, but im sure it will hurt even worse if he has another injury (233 games in 4 years... ouch) Our Rockets franchise certainly has more sense than that. Oelipere, shame on you for scaring us like that. haha ------------------
Man it was funny watching Jerry Krause on Saturday during the lottery. He looked like he was going to cry. OP- It seems to me that our position has improved. Vancouver and New Jersey have the 6 and 7 picks respectively. We could definetly get a big man at either of those picks. Could you see either of these trades happening? Houston trades 13th and 18th pick(and Walt or the 22nd pick if needed) to Vancouver for the 6th pick and next years obligation or Houston trades Cato, 13th pick, Anderson to Jersey for KVH and 7th pick ------------------ Fuggetabout it
Isn't that saying "league balance"? I can't agree with this because that would mean Stern is right. lol. so, you can call me in denial, too. The way I look at it is like squeezing a balloon. You may contrict one part of it, but it will pop out somewhere else. Just let the wind take the balloon, besides you might pop it. You are definitely describing Stern's theory. I am expecting the teams that dominate with superstar centers/PFs to continue to dominant. Because, let's not forget, the best way to beat a zone is also the best way to beat any defense...just give it to a big man to shoot over it at short range. So, it might be harder for them to score like that, but it will be much harder for you to score like that without a superstar. I see the balloon mistakenly popping out to give the dominant center/PF-based teams even more dominance, creating league-wide inbalance. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 21, 2001).]
Yeah Stern is after parity alright. MMMMmmmmmm. Well he will get it. We now have "also rans" and more "new phenoms" (just like Kobe!, just like KG!, like like Mike!, just like "fill-in-the-blank),clogging up drafts and that collectively will last a miserable year because they have no basics, no fundamentals and have this holier than thou "Gawd what is defense?", I'm tyhe star of my school. **** of the walk mentality. Then they are sent back home after a year or two without an education and no basketball future. Hey let's lower the bar. Let's unload that zone defense business,okay Davy-Boy. Let's make standing around a decent defense. Look at Golden State, the Clips and Chicago the last couple of years. They did alright. They have some flashy players. Look at all the posters of Brand and Darius Miles we sold. They got some great lottery picks,too. Hey next year we can drop that hoop-thingee down to 7 feet like Woody and Wesley did in "White Men Can't Jump". It will look great cause now everyone gets to score. That's the ticket. Let's have parity. They can't come up, so let's all move down!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, I should have been a commisioner. Wait ... I'm David Stern .... I AM Te Gawd Damn Commissioner. Somebody get all those Gerrys, Johns, Jerrys, Mikes,Marks and that guy with the funny name on the phone. I want a meeting. ("Psst ..... somebody ask Michael what he thinks before this goes to far ...... wha? wha? ... he does ... he likes it ... he really really likes it!!!!! Oh man, this is great. Mike says his team can compete now,too. Gawd I love parity! Says now he just has to stop anyone from coming within 16 feet of the net and he's home free ....... That Michael he's a great guy,isn't he?) ------------------
Holy ****, Oeil!! That was one hell of a rant... The White Men Can't Jump reference was outstanding, BTW... ------------------ Jazzkiller
HP Wrote: It is because Webber is already paid above the current maximum for a 7-10 yr vet. In that event, he is allowed to maintain a payrate above the maximum, but he is limited to signing contracts at only 105% of his current salary. That’s the ticket,bud Mango Wrote: oeilpere, I still don't think Dream would sign into a situation in which he would be Webber's caddy, but lets move on to another point/question. Man, he is smart enough to know he may not be carrying someone’s jock, but he indeed will be second or third man on the totem pole wherever he goes. That is just the reality of being a talented but aging superstar. Mango Wrote: Dream would have to take (be offered) whatever money is left when the spreadsheets have been crunched and the various deals are ready to be put to ink. I just don't think Dream's pride will allow him to swallow all of the above as easily as many here think he will. I agree that it will be difficult. But if Dream wants to play out his career here he best get used to the idea of a renunciation of his contract, then a pick up after some other deals are signed. Or, a minimal contract signing(which I doubt he would accept). Nikestrad Wrote: If Cato isn't used in S/T, or can't be used to move up, any ideas on who wants him? Well as Red Aurbach said (actually a lot of old B-Ball foggies said it): "You can’t teach height." There are probably half a dozen out there who would jump on him. Our problem (according to CD, anyway) in the past has been getting something back for him. Previous to this we did not have the luxury of some cap room, a couple of picks and a couple of other irons in the fire. It will be easier to do this summer, but again they will not dump him for the sake of dumping him. Much to my (and others) chagrin. Note: Keep this in mind, they will not unload him unless there is a viable alternative. Let's face it folks, if Dream is gone and we haven't made any other center deals, it's Cato at the pivot! On KVH not wanting to play the three. Never specifically heard him say that. I know he wanted to play the four and sometimes five with the nets, but their game was focused on those positions most of the time. Mainly due top injuries and slotting personnel. His biggest arguments on that team was just getting the ball in his hands X number of times per game. Let me ask you before I ask him: … would you rather be a starting three with the Rockets or splitting four duty in New Jersey? Nuff Said! LOL Swopa Wrote: Defensively, Van Horn has the dreaded Joe Smith syndrome -- too slow to guard SFs, too weak to guard PFs. At some point during the year, I did read that he didn't like playing SF, because it was more embarrassing to have someone dribble right around him on the perimeter than to be overpowered inside. Okay let’s nip this in the bud. One of the new defensive wrinkles in the past two seasons was coaches finding merit in “spot stopping” defenses. Kinda like a (defense?) pick and roll in reverse. The long lanky guy goes topside for the initial stop, then depending what the ball carrier does, he either drifts off to another more appropriate opponent (slide to cover) and let that guys defender take Speedy Gonzales, or he stays in the guys face (a one man trap). LA uses Horry that way, Oakley does that with McKie, Nowitzki, PJ Brown, LaFrentz, and even buddy Kevin Willis was used that way in Toronto. The real point in any defensive scheme against the ball carrier is to get the opponent to do what you want them to do. Give up the ball and pass to a less damaging teamate, change the shooters position , or something as simple making him pick up his dribble or cut off his passing lanes. Speed is not always a deficit trade off on some defenses. Joe Wrote: Any word on how the rockets plan to attack the zone? The most obvious thing to me is that we have a fairly firm approach to the zone defense already and that is the inside-outside game and a bunch of "perimeter shooters" offensive schemes. So they will continue to do that. Essentially this rule change eliminates the zonal defense, loosing up the parameters in that a player can stand and stay pretty much where he wants. (They say they will be more strict on the 3 second rule, but if they allow Shaq 12 seconds now, will that mean he only gets nine seconds next year? LOL) In aggressive D sets, they will switch off and double team the ball carrier if necessary but the main set will probably be a 1:3:1 kind of thing. The Rockets have combated those (legal and illegal (Utah!!!) defenses consistently for years. The big difference I see is that by eliminating zone parameters it makes mediocre defensive players more effective, simply by moving to an area (zone) your mere presence limits the movement through that zone. If they need help, a double team can come from anywhere without fear of an illegal defense whistle. The other thing is that it makes slower offenders, guys who can shoot above average but can’t easily create (Bull, Walt Williams), a much more effective weapon. We also have had post games in our books for several years that first option the pass (as opposed to a square around or step out) when threatened with a double team or strong zone defense. Frankly, I think it makes teams with large gapping holes in their roster (average defenders, and average scorers) a little better, and teams that have a higher talent level (good man to man defenders and self creating scorers) a little less effective. Cheers. ------------------
In a perfect world the best is always laid at your feet. If any 3 of the following 10 things happened I would count my blessings. I would be extremely ecstatic if 5 of the 10 happened (we would be whistling all the way to a 2002 playoff berth.) 1. Cato and The Wiz are traded in either a lopsided (85%) return or a package that would either involve us adding one of our draft choices to one of the above ex-Rockets and moving up a couple of spots in the exchange. Kind of...I still think Wiz will be traded for Jahidi White which is very lopsided IMO. 2. I will appease the gods and not ask the nearly impossible ..... the number one draft pick. But, I will pray daily to them for a favorable fifth to eighth place. I (we) deserve that. Not through lottery, but we still got the 7th pick, which landed us the same guy we would've taken with the #1. 3. Keep the best one of the draft picks (three?) and hand off the rest to accommodate trades or previous commitments. Visions of wasting this opportunity to truly use the picks to settle accounts keep swimming in my head. They didn't do this, but trading up to 7 was even better... 4. When Shandon goes, he allows us to do a sign and trade. Yep. 5. Again I will apease the gods once again and ask for the nearly impossible (and I think it is highly unlikely we get him) but if Webber decides he wants to or does not want to come to Houston, he lets us know the day of first legal opportunity. Well we let him know we didn't want to go after him pretty early on... 6. Chicago falls in love with someone (Shandon?) and agrees to compensate us with one of their handful of picks. ( I still hear tell that New Jersey is a better bet for us… more on this at another time…) You called that one Pops. 7. If Dream decides to go “a-wandering”, he allows us to do a sign and trade. Yep. 8. If Dream decides to go “a-wandering”, he goes to the East (Miami or New York ???). Yep. 9. I hope every mother son who was ever touted as a “top five” 2001 draft pick by everyone from Adelaide to Vecsey decides to enter the draft (hear that Brown, Ming, etc ?) and clogs the top spots with so much talent that despite every failed effort to move up, the Rockets will still end up with a pretty good pick in the double digits. This didn't happened, but it still worked out. 10. We draft someone who can start and consistently perform next season in any position. (SF? PF? C?) I don't care which. Griffin could start if we needed him too, but now we don't even need him to start with the Rice trade.
man... what a let down. I thought this was going to be a new popeye post, instead of a rerun. Oh well, for a minute or two, I was really excited. Maybe someone could bring back a cryptic Doc Rocket post and see if he predicted anything else to happen this summer. This long, long summer. Oh and by the way, if you're reading this Pop or Doc, please inform the powers that be (CD, Rudy, Calvin) that I still want Jackson at the five, as I'm sure they are curious as to what I would like.
why is this on here? the guy predicted all of what happened to the T sounds fishy, but I wonder when he posted it.
And people wonder why newbies are called newbies. (FYI Don Scepticone: Doc Rocket and Oeilpere have links into the Rockets. They can't tell us everything, and not everything they post as possible trades can come true, but they do spice up the board and everyone is grateful for it. )
