If Tmac had stayed with Toronto, Could that team have challanged the lakers?

btm makes me NOT ONLY type lol, but also lol as well. that is how extreme is sillyness has become.

 

26pts and 15rebs when he gets the touches. Oh, that's what he did last night. How's Kevin Willis btw? Nugzfan, you're one ornary Nuggets fan. NVE wants to leave because you keep trading away people like Keon. Get a clue!

Keon is money on his drives, has a good J out to 18 feet and shoots 50%. Rebounds great as well.

Guys gotta keep off him in the post because he can blow by virtually anyone. This usually gives him wide open 10 footers or the like. It's virtually unstoppable as well.

Camby has no face-up J whatsoever. He also doesn't have blinding speed to get buy people. Camby hits the odd open J and scores off dunks/layups.

Sheed has his moves, Keon has his moves. Whenever Keon gets the touches and PT, he puts up numbers on par or better to Sheed's.

Just look at his stats. He absolutely **** on the Knicks last night too.

 

So, BTM, if Keon Clark has Rasheed Wallace skills, why doesn't he get the touches?

Perhaps Lenny Wilkins, the entire Toronto management, and his teammates are just idiots, eh? Nobody else sees it, but BTM the Greatest Basketball Mind of Our Generation does?

 

haven, lemme give you a scenario:

Keon gets 15-20 shots a game for the rest of the year and averages 23/11 or some sick numbers like that. Toronto is way over the cap and can't afford to give him a near max deal. If Keon tears it up like that. If Keon tears it up like that it'll be a Tracy McGrady situation all over again for them. Do they want this? No! They wanna lock him up long term and then let him loose.

Rasheed also wasn't a 20/8 guy like he is now. He was unspectacular before. Keon's coming off the bench behind 2 established past all-stars. If he were any other team not including San Antonio or Sacramento he'd be starting.

haven, front offices make mistakes! Yinka Dare? Sam Bowie? Polynice for Pippen? Don't ever diss a fan for thinking he can judge talent better than a team's front office because more often than not that is the case. Bet Portland loved Sam Bowie!!!

Toronto management? Ask any fan in Toronto if they wanted Aleksander Radojevic over Corey Maggette or Ron Artest in the draft. Hindsight is 20/20 but come on!

It's funny because you're talking like front offices or coaches never make mistakes. That alone is pretty hilarious.

 

Oh yeah a good game against a mediocre team qualfies him as the better player.

 

Riiiight. Toronto doesn't care about winning now at all. Besides, if management did this often, players would revolt. Hell, why playanyone before a contract year?

Hakeem's hurt and Davis is a PF. There are any # of teams he wouldn't be started at.

Now, this is a pitiful argument. Absolutely worthless. Most mistakes of this nature are made for two reasons: 1. the college game is fundamentally different from the pro game. Different things are important, and the competition is lesser and 2. GM's are betting on potential. It's much harder to read potential than current talent.

Yawn. This draft-argument has nothing to do with Toronto's current assessment of Keon's abilities. Keon plays in the NBA. Keon gets more than 20 minutes a night against NBA players. Keon practices every day against NBA players. Keon is observed by the Toronto staff, constantly.

For someone attempting to be condescending, you certainly do advance dubious claims. Front offices make mistakes all the time. But the idea that someone who could play as well as Rasheed Wallace right now isn't getting enough opportunity because Toronto is:

A. somehow misperceiving how he plays in practice and games
B. conspiring to fool Clark and the rest of the league about his true value
C. Not giving him enough opportunity because of frickin' Hakeem and Davis...

sorry, not convincing in the slightest.

 

Keon has started virtually every game Hakeem's been injured. Sometimes they've gone with Montross like against Shaq, etc.

haven, if I came out before the draft and said the Raptors should draft Zack Randolph instead of Michael Bradley, what would you say? Now let's say 5 years down the line Bradley is out of the league and Randolph is a 20/10 player. WHO WOULD BE RIGHT!? Does this prove I was right and they were wrong? YES. You're using the incredible stupid arguement that fans can never be right and should never questions front offices or waste time forming their own opinions.

Look at the contract situations of Hakeem and Antonio Davis. Is he gonna start over them? Hell no.

There's plenty of players that are stuck on benches who could probably be stars(not superstars) if they got a chance. Tim Thomas, Michael Redd, Kenny Thomas(look at him now), Courtney Alexander, Quentin Richardson, Darius Miles, Hido Turkoglu, etc come to mind. You gonna tell me these guys couldn't come into the starting lineup and be great if they didn't have ESTABLISHED STARTERS ahead of them?

Look at what Kenny's doing now! Look at what Alexander was doing before MJ suited up! Tim Thomas avged like 20ppg in place of Robinson. Hedo is a young ****ing Peja who could probably be dropping 18 or so a game if he were on a team as their starting 2/3. You gonna deny this?!!

These players, including Keon Clark, have proven they can get the job done and put up crazy numbers every time they get the opportunity of a star player.

 

I don't believe a single person believes that one of those people has the current value of Rasheed Wallace. Many of those players have potential. And I think you're inflating it.

Tim Thomas is good, but George Karl would be starting him over Robinson in a minute if he could fulfill the flashes he's shown. Karl doesn't really like Robinson that much.

Haven't seen enough of Redd to comment.

Q is also playing well... but there aren't really any established players on that team. He's averaging good #'s for a mediocre team. Darius Miles is in desperate need of a shot. Turkoglu needs to learn to play defense and create his own shot a bit better. Kenny Thomas is an average starter, great back-up.

I don't really see any of those peoples as potential current stars. I see Keon Clark, and I see a skinny guy who can really block shots without a great post game. Or a good jump shot.

I see Clark as a future 14/9/3 guy. Obviously, you like him more than that. I suppose time will tell...

 

Keon's stats as a starter: 13.7ppg, 9.6rpg

He's already a 14/9 guy!!! And that's only averaging 12 shots a game as a starter!!! That's in 13 games btw(suitable amount). As a starter he leads the Raptors in defensive rebounding as well.

I'm not saying guys like Q/Hedo could be as good as Sheed. It's too subjective comparing guards and power forwards.

Coaching in the NBA is also managing egos. I believe that if Karl started Thomas over Dog now for the remainder of the season, there'd be huge lockerroom turmoil. Dog is the established starter and doesn't want to be benched. Thomas wants to start but is a bench player and can accept his role for now. Just like if Lenyn Wilkens benched Antonio Davis for Keon Clark, there'd be trouble. It's all about egos.

Maybe Sheed could be more of a star but I see comparable numbers if Keon gets the same opportunity, if anything better rebounding from Keon.

And getting back to the jist of this thread... That's why Vince, Tracy and Keon together would be the Lakers.

Michael Redd reminds me of a young Ray Allen but a bit less athletic. Great shot out to 3pt range, quick trigger and can hit big shots. Obviously not as good now but he'd probably be a 15ppg scorer if he was starting in place of Cuttino(for example).

 

I Agree mostly with BTm

 

again the LOLing by yours truly as initiated by this post, thanks mostly to a certain BTM. silly raptor fan.

 

Is it a prerequisite that Nuggets fans be too ignorant to argue so they insult instead?

You're no exception, NugzF*ck.

How's Kevin Willis doing, btw? Is he tearing it up for the Nugs?

 

McGrady the edge over Kobe?

If anything, it's a push. But I'd give the edge to Kobe.

 

Also, Lenny Wilkens would have screwed up somewhere before the NBA Finals.

When was the last time Lenny went to the Finals?

Has he even won a title?

Big coaching edge goes to Phil and his staff.

I know Phil isn't an X's and O's wiz, but X's and O's are less than half of what it takes to win.

Ya ya ya Kobe and Shaq help. But, did they go anywhere before Phil? No.

If Phil weren't there last year, perhaps Kobe or Shaq would have been traded.

Phil is the one coach who can handle the huge egos, without effecting the team.

Anyone who can win with Rodman, is a hell of a coach in my book.

Phil flat out knows how to get his guys to play when they need to.

 

Screw Keon. I would be a piece of the potent trio if the other two were Carter and Tmac.

 

Keon's been dropping 20/9 the past few games on 15 shots a game... He's gonna be a star. You heard it here.

He absolutely raped Glenn Robinson yesterday. Blocked him 3 times 1on1. Too bad his teammates suck. Antonio Davis: 3-15!!! For a PF!!!

 

McGrady was better suited leaving Toronto. He and Kobe are both great players, but the edge goes to Kobe, just slightly - and this from a supposed "Kobe hater" in myself.

Keon Clark has potential, but to say he's developed like Sheed - no matter the numbers right now - is insane. For every 20/12 game he has a 4/4 game. He may be a good center, but the Raptors were lucky to get him for what they did.

As I recall, he wanted out of Denver and was causing turmoil because of it. Not to mention that teams have been leery of him because he's supposedly a crackhead.

Toronto, even with McGrady, would not necessarily have the core they have now - in fact, that's unlikely. The trade for Keon is likely not made, nor is the trade for Jerome Williams. McGrady wanted out of Toronto because he knew that, with Vince in town, he was not going to develop like he has now.

So, essentially, this whole argument about TMac and Toronto is moot....you can play the "what if" game all you want, but it's not going to happen - and never would've happened.

These Keon Clark arguments are silly, too. Rasheed Wallace is an all-star - Clark is not. If Clark were that good he would start over Davis and Olajuwon (when healthy). Since he is not, that says one of two things - he isn't that good or Toronto management (unlike BTM wants to think; in fact, I recall reading where he bashed someone pointing out the many numnerous personnel decisions that have been horrible over the years) can easily screw up and make bad personnel decisions.