If the starting lineup is not . . . ill lose my mind

I agree with Ziggy. If Adelman is smart he will build on what JVG did. He wants to keep the defense and rebounding close to where it was at, while making substantial improvements in offense. Having James/Francis/Brooks gobble up the 1 minutes is one major way, adding new wrinkles to the offense and using players like Francis and Wells (and maybe Scola) off the bench is another.

Also, I don't think defense is foreign to Adelman. What I remember about those Blazers teams is that they were physical, tough and athletic. They could run and score as well, but it was the former why they got by the Lakers and West comp. And he kept one of his best shooters and offensive players, and I guy usually in the game at closing time, Danny Ainge, on the bench.

Payton in Miami has been a less efficient less offensively potent point guard than Rafer Alston was for us last year. Who cares what he did when he was 30. He was a major rotation player in a championship run despite being a major liability offensively. Fox was more potent and solid all around. Harper if I remember was a really limited offensive player by the time he got his rings, maybe not quite as weak as Payton offensively.

Pollard had Webber and Vlade in front of him. Yes is Scola can stay out of foul trouble, not get Yao into foul trouble, do OK on defense and do OK on boards, he will start. But these are questions.

Think of it last year, Hayes played 22MPG, Howard played 27MPG. Yet IMO the substitution pattern was without question the right one. If Adelman came in and said Howard was going to start over Hayes I would think he is missing some much bigger issues than just the extra points Howard (or Scola produce).

I would like to see Scola start and Hayes back him up, but I am skeptical that it would be the right move. Scola has to show he can hold his own defensively and rebounding in the NBA 1st. The last thing we want is opponents elite 4s further licking their chops, getting into an offensive rythum, and getting the front line in early foul trouble.

 

He did?!?!?!

Anyway, I think Scola should start. Why? Just name me one Argt. player that have sucked in the NBA...

 

The word is complement. And what Scola brings to the table offensively isn't going to mean much against any WC PF in the playoffs. If we hit a team like Utah with a center who can hit from outside Yao will be even more in trouble than he was in JVG's system.

Yao needs someone who can run back to the paint and guard it. We still haven't found that guy yet.

 

I like what were doing Overall with the addition of francis, james and brooks. say if Tracy goes down again, unlike last year, we now have enough scoring wing and combo guards to be able to somewhat cover he's absence now.

Last season we had noone who could come remotely close to replacing Tracy's scoring. but with francis and james, were gonna be in better shape. another reason why i wanna keep Alston is because that will let james and francis to play to there strengths which is scoring.

 

Scola can battle boozer who really isn't a post player but a fade away jump shooting big man. Okur is a 3 point shooter and just a overral perimeter player. I wouldn't worry about getting back on defense and stopping boozer in the post. I would worry against duncan but not too much anyone else out west. Brand is a fade away jump sooter, Amare is a pick and roll lay up dunk player with no post moves. Dirk has no post up game and in the playoffs settles for jumpers. Garnett is another fade away jump shooter,who is most likely headed to the celtics.

 

Daddy Cool, you aren't Elston Jr, are you?

 

Yao can actually guard Duncan pretty effectively. So in actuallity, there really isn't one single person in the west that is unguardable. The younger Shaq is the only one that springs to mind that is befitting of that title.

 

We can play zone.

 

That will most likely be the starting lineup at first, I think.

 

I need put Jeff Foster into the starting lineup if we face Duncan or Boozer.

 

I don't like SF3 as a starter, he is better off the bench. Also, why not have T at the 3 more often, I think our biggest mistake would be to use him as much as Gundy did.

 

The problem with Tmac at the 3 much is I have more confidence in our schrimpy shooting guards (Luther, Francis) as Tmacs back-up than our big guards (Wells, Snyder). If Wells or Snyder play really well than Tmac can get more 3 minutes. But as of right now it is really hard to have a backcourt of two among James/Alston/Francis/Brooks/Head for heavy minutes.

 

It's no secret why Danny Ainge came off the bench, he had Drexler and Porter in front of him.

Nobody is saying that Chuck Hayes can't be a good rotational player. The discussion was him starting vs coming off the bench. To that point, you're making my argumement for me. Payton certainly isn't the offensive player he use to be (although still much better than Hayes). Now go back and check the box scores from the '06 finals and you'll see that Payton didn't start a single game in the entire finals. He came off the bench as he had done the entire season. So now if Pat Riley, who's close to JVG in stressing defense first, doesn't start a limited offensive player, then why in the world do you think Adelman would?

Yes, Pollard had Webber and Vlade in front of him, that is true. It's also true that when Webber went out with his knee injury, Adelman started Lawrence Funderburke instead of Pollard.

What bigs are getting Yao in foul trouble? Yao does fine defending big guys. He covered Boozer (who's very mobile) for 7 games and was fine. He's not picking up fouls defending big men, he's picking up offensive fouls and fouls trying to stop the penetraion of guards in the pick n' roll.

You may be skeptical but Adelman thinks differently:


I've looked at a lot of tape on Luis and the way he plays," said an almost giddy Adelman. "I think he's going to be a great attribute to Yao (Ming), because he's very active. There is always movement. He's a good passer. Of all the people we looked at in terms of being a complement to Yao, he really fills the bill."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/4976798.html



I respect you opinion, but I'll have to side with Adleman here.

 

But their best offensive team and often clutch, closing team, had Ainge in there. Clyde could easily handle the 3 with Ainge and Porter in the backcourt, but Adelman started Kersey, no where near the offensive player (shooting ability, decision making) of Ainge. Kersey was an athletic and physical presence, him and Buck anchored the defense.

I'll bring up Howard again. Would Adelman had started Howard over Hayes rather than bring Howard off the bench but get more total minutes? I think the weakness of Howard starting in the same front line may be the same for Scola. I hope he would not start Howard (and if Scola has the same weaknness), I think Hayes protected Yao, Tmac and Battier early better.

If Scola proves slow of foot and ole defense Yao is going to take some fouls on his man. That would be bad.

I respect your opinion as well. And there is no question Adelman is excited about the player. But that doesn't mean Scola should start. Heck Manu doesn't start. Barbosa doesn't start. (and finalist or winning squads that included Cassell, Ainge, Bob McAdoo, etc). There are lots of advantages of a 6th man role (get a little wearier opponents, generally come in to rank up the offense and be a little freeir play maker) and I hope all angles are considered before starting Scola over Hayes.

 

This is a pretty interestng debate. one can say Scola's offensive game will help yao in not allowing teams play collapse defense. if we had another threat in the low post besides yao, we probaly would have won that series. Scola would have made boozer work alot more on defense hence less energy on offense.

With scola there now, teams just cant focus on playing playing collapse defense on yao. scola will make them pay if they leave him alone.he'll keep them accountable. something hayes couldnt do. with hayes being a poor offensive player, he's opposing player would just collapse on yao.

On the Flip side, with hayes you know that someone will allways behind doing the dirty work leaving yao only to concentrate on offense. with hayes there, he'll do thoe little dirty things on defense that will hopefully keep yao out of foul trouble.

It'sa good problem to have in my opinion. it shows we finally have enough depth to be versatile enough to have a good offensive and good defensive unit at our disposal.

 

You need to go back and re-check your stats. In each of the two years that Ainge was in Portland Kersey averaged more points and also shot a higher percentage. At that point in their careers, Kersey was the better offensive player.

Howard is a pretty good passer and can hit a mid range shot, so if I had to guess, then yeah I think Adelman would have started him over Hayes. I'm still not seeing where Hayes is protecting Yao. If you're going to protect Yao, then stop have him trying to switch off onto point guards at the top of the key. He's picking up far more fouls doing that than he is defending big guys in the paint. Howard played alot of minutes along side Yao too and I'm just not seeing any great disparity in Yao's fouls when Howard was in the game vs when Hayes was in the game. The common factor was always that guard's penetration tends to get Yao to pick up fouls.

So now Scola is slow of foot and plays ole defense? Since when? He's one of the better rebounders in Europe and while he's not an athletic freak, he's hardly unathletic. He played good defense in Europe and in International play against the likes of Boozer and J. O'Neil. While he's not Ben Wallace defensively, neither is he Steve Novak.

Barbosa and Ginobli don't play for Adelman. I'll ask again, when has Adelman ever started a guy that couldn't score? He's certainly started guys that didn't get many shots, but everyone that's started for him has had the ability to score and pass. That's Adelman's track record and I have no reason to believe that he'll vary from it.

Could it work a different way? Certainly it's possible. Maybe Sacramento would have done better by sacrificing some offense and passing by starting Pollard. There's no way to tell for sure. My money is still on Adelman going with the same things that have been successful for him in the past rather than all of a sudden changing.

 

You dont have to be necesserly a great scorer to start in the motion offense. but you need to be able to hit Mid range and be able to be a good player off the ball on offense . you need to be able to hold opposing teams accountable. those are things Scola can do and hayes cant.

 

The weaknesses of Scola thrown out of there are ifs. The weaknesses of Chuck Hayes are definite. Hayes is a rebounding specialist and good team defender, he can't bother others' shots. People just shoot over him. That's his weakness on defense. On offense, Hayes is hard to fit into a system without hampering four other starters. Put him inside he and his defender clogs up the lane. Put him outside his defender can park away from him and bother others.

Also, although Hayes has good +/- numbers with the starting lineup last season. There's also another reason Howard became a back up. Due to Hayes' offensive ineptitude, how could we score if we put him next to Mutombo? We had a thin bench and Howard came off to score. Not the case this year.

One last thing. I don't get it, why is JHo compared to Scola? Morey is comparing Scola to Andres Nicioni and he ranks Scola as a MLE player RIGHT NOW.

 

I meant we dont need more defense. also people gotta remember i think in 02, the kings led the league in defense.