If the starting lineup is not . . . ill lose my mind

its way too early to tell if scola or hayes will start. who the hell knows if scola is a bust or not. imo, i think we should switch starters depending on opponents. for example, against a defensive team, scola. against offensive team, hayes. the good thing is, i think they both can play half court offense and run and gun offense. so, all it matterse is if the opponent is a defensive or offensive team, not run and gun or half court.

 

If you're trying to make the argument that Mo is the better player based off of salary, I think your argument is flawed. If that were the case, why aren't the Knicks the best team in basketball.

I'm with Ziggy. With Yao, Mac, and Stevie in the starting lineup, you've got all the scoring punch you need. Chuck and Shane are opportunistic scorers that fit very well with those three.

Not to mention, if you're going to run a more up-tempo offense, one of the major keys is effective defensive rebounding. You need good rebounders so you can leak other players back on the break. Yao is great at occupying people and creating space but you need a hustle guy like Chuck in there that is just going to gobble up rebounds and start the break. He's got some short-comings (quite literally) but he is a very good rebounder, a very good defender, and a heady player. Were I Adelman, I would play him until he fouls out of every game.

 

You mean drinking up Scola. Skoal!

 

So that means Scola would get at least 30 min. anyway .

 

So when exactly did you decide that NBA veterans are better rebounders than Euroleague rebounders?

According to Hollinger, Euro players rebound way better in the NBA on a per minute basis.

You've also left out that Scola only played, what, 25 minutes? 30 minutes tops?

In the NBA, 10 rebounds for each 40 minutes is considered a good rebounder.

Chuck Hayes is an exceptional rebounder. But make no mistake about it, Luis Scola is a good rebounder. He will be a better rebounder than Juwan, but not as good as Hayes.

But to say he'll be a poor rebounder? Please. Most NBA PF's would be considered poor rebounders compared to Chuck Hayes.

Oh, you're also forgetting how much less of the scoring load Scola will have to carry on the Rockets.

 

Ziggy and Redglare 21:

If you think teams would really select Chuck Hayes over a young Mo Taylor, who was once a borderline all star at the same price, I have nothing to say. I would be just glad that you guys aren't the Rockets GM.

On another note, I'm also glad that you guys aren't the Rockets coach. With all due respect, this thing called playing 4 against 5 on offense against the elite defensive teams is getting old. Why dig a gaping hole on a perfect scoring lineup for a couple of extra rebounds? Why practically give an extra defender to the other team for a couple of rebounds? It doesn't make sense. We win a game by how many points we score, not by counting how many rebounds we collect. I think coach Adelman's offensive philosophy is in accordance with great offense, put 5 guys on the floor who can score, so the defense can't afford to concentrate on a single player. There wasn't a single offensive liability on his Kings team's starting lineup.

Rebounding is an effort thing, now if Scola saves his position and energy without scoring and just focus on rebounding like Hayes, would his rebounding go up or go down? I read somewhere on this board that Scola's rebounding rate is similar to that of Oberto's in Europe. Can't see why it's that big of an issue.

Hayes is a decent bench player, that's why he can't play more than 23 minutes competing against an over the hill JHo, and also why he's treated as an insurance plan in case we can't get another pf in trades. Don't get your hope high up, or you may get disappointed. The Rockets aren't considering Hayes as a starting pf.

 

Statistics are only relevent if the person quoting them understands the numbers, you obviously don't.

Comparing NCAA stats and EuroLeague stats is ridiculous. That's comparing apples and oranges.

I'm not sure if you know who John Hollinger is, but he's one of the premier NBA stat guys. He's the person who developed the PER statistic. Here's Hollinger's explanation:



There's a very predictable relationship between a player's stats in Europe and what they'll be in the NBA, one that shows surprisingly little variation between players. Those who make the jump from the Euroleague (the highest level of European basketball) to the NBA can expect the following:

• their scoring rate to decrease by 25 percent;
• their rebound rate to increase by 18 percent (there are more missed shots to grab over here);
• their assist rate to increase by 31 percent (their scorers are stingy on assists);
• their shooting percentage to drop by 12 percent; and
• overall, their PER drops by 30 percent.



That's Hollinger's analysis of how Euro stats translate to the NBA. Notice that he says "There's a very predictable relationship between a player's stats in Europe and what they'll be in the NBA, one that shows surprisingly little variation between players". Hollinger is pretty confident in his projections.

Ok, so then what's his projection for Scola?

Luis Scola (17.1 pts/40. 10.2 reb/40, 50.4 FG percent, 16.27 PER)
Scola's numbers had taken a bit of a dip the previous two seasons, but he had a strong season last year that should help keep his stock high should San Antonio trade his rights this summer. The Argentine power forward projects as one of the few Euros who could start in the NBA immediately.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2920870

If Scola eventually turns into a 17/10 guy who shoots 50%, then I'm pretty happy. Hollinger's research suggests that Scola will be a good rebounder (10.2 reb in 40 min.), so I'm going to trust his opinion.

 

Since the offseason has hit the deadly "summer slump" after a flurry of activity, all we have left to do is to argue over "what might be."

When "ifs" and "buts" become fruits and nuts, we will all have a Merry Christmas. You want to know where Gator is? Answer: doing something else.

 

Well, you have a couple of months, so loose your mind now so that you can have time to recover for the preseason games

 

wasn't oberto in his first yr w/ the spurs last yr? if scola can have the same impact like oberta did or anything close to it, we'll be much better.

 

The same way you're "eating up" Chuck Hayes? Seriously, comparing European League and NCAA stats to NBA stats has to be the dumbest thing you can do because the game is playing completely different in that respect. Talent is talent and Scola is one of the more talented big men available. Chuck Hayes is a bench player. It's like Sparky Anderson used to say, if you play a bench player long enough you'll find out why he's a bench player.

 

It's Oberto's 2nd year.

In his 1st year, he played 8.3/min in 59 games coming off the bench. He averaged 1.7 pts and 2.1 rebs. He could have been injured. I don't know. I don't watch the Spurs.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/fabricio_oberto/career_stats.html

 

Oberto's first year, he did not play basically the first half of the season, then he received significantly more minutes the 2nd half of the season.

 

Scola will start. That does not mean he will be able to adapt quickly. But if he is not a major contributor come playoff time, then we are headed for another first round exit.

I would start Scola. But if he does not work out, then a trade needs to be made to get another PF. No way that the alternative to starting Scola is Hayes.

 

Why do we need a scorer at the PF when we have:

Tmac
Yao
Francis
Mike James
Bonzi

All of whom can and do erupt for big games with Tmac and Yao doing so nightly. Someone besides Battier needs to be on the court to play some defense and hustle for extra possessions. I'm sure Scola will be a great addition but I really worry when I see so many people on here forgetting how good Chuck really is. He will only be better this season considering it is just his third year and the new offense is perfect for the way he moves and cuts to the basket so efficiently.

Role players. We need more than one (Battier).

 

I expect Scola to shoot a higher percentage than all of those except Yao.

 

Over a young Mo Taylor, no, I wouldn't choose Hayes. Over Mo now? Different story. Either way, my point is simply that just because Hayes doesn't command a high salary doesn't mean that he's not as useful. Remeber Dennis Rodman was and integral part of one of the best teams in history and he will never be confused with a scorer. (Not saying Chuck is that good, just that he fills that roll)

Also, I only consider Chuck a liability on offense if you try to make him something he's not. He's terrific at grabbing offensive boards, getting putbacks, and occasionally sneaking in behind the defense to get Tracy an assist. If you put him in a position to shoot jumpshots, yeah, he'll be totally useless.

If Scola comes over and outperforms Chuck (and by that I mean that the team is better with him on the floor than with Chuck, not outscores or outassists or outjumpshoots him), by all means, he should get the minutes. But even though the final score isn't counted in rebounds, you have to be able to get the ball back if you want to outscore your opponent.

 

He played more minutes and more games before the All-star break. Popovich started using him less. Did he get injured? He averaged only 3 minutes in March. Why did Popovich do that? Popovich should have played him more.

 

Wouldn't that be grazing on Hayes?

 

Mohammed started Oberto's first year. Oberto barely played. Looked lost when he did.

Hayes is a bench player. I also think Scola is (at this point). Hopefully we get a Haslem quality guy. Doubt it though. Hayes is better suited at this point.