If Spurs are Best-in-the-West, how do Rox catch them?

IMHO, the way to narrow the gap between the Rockets and Spurs involves Yao..

First...keep Yao on the floor. Obviously, two ways to accomplish this...Yao needs to have more endurance and we need athletic perimeter defenders next to McGrady to keep Yao from picking up cheap fouls on the Jason Terry's, Mike Bibby's, Tony Parker's and Manu Ginobili's of the world.

Imagine for one moment an NBA pickup game where the Rockets remained intact but had Bruce Bowen. Love him or hate hate him he changes the entire floor dynamic of the Rockets on defense and transition into offense.

And therein lies point two....transition. While the Rockets have a decent inside-out game, the more baskets they get in transition O it takes pressure off of both Yao and TMac in a half-court set. Sura, Wesley and Barry are good to very good offensive transition players. Now imagine any one of them 5 to 8 years younger and 3"-6" taller. That's what we should be targeting in the draft.

On the flip side of transition O is defensive transition. It is far and away what has allowed the Spurs to be up 2-0 over PHX. They have shutdown the points PHX gets in transition. The Rockets with Sura, Barry, and Wesley are borderline excellent at transition D. Now imagine for a moment a glass-cleaning PF who gobbles up all of the long rebounds from teams that can't penetrate the Rox half-court D. Let's say an Otis Thorpe for the next millennium. As close as we can get to that "Millennium Otis" narrows the gap. He doesn't have to be anywhere near Duncan's equal. He just has to make Duncan expend a little energy in transition.

 

easy, don't blow game 7 against dallas...

 

I think at least it will take Rox 2 years to reach Spurs level. Even we can match up well at every position, we cannot match their attitude and playoffs experience

God knows what Pop and Buford will recruit in coming years. They can come up good trades and good drafts. Parker (28th). Ginobili signed a few years ago....

 

Who wants to sex Mutombo?

Stuart

 

As long as they have that organization with Pop as the coach, the Rockets won't catch them. Theirs is the model that we should be striving for here but that's unlikely because the same folks who screwed things up with bad drafts, poor FA signings and questionable trades are still calling the shots. The next two years here will be marked by the Rockets trying to dig themselves out of the hole they put themselves in while SA has the luxury of looking forward and continuing to get better. The same is true in Dallas, Denver, Phoenix and Seattle - all of whom have teams built around a core of young players. The Rockets are just starting to try doing that with TMac & Yao and while time may be on their side now, this is an organization that has shown that it can waste years stumbling and bumbling along.

If you look at the core of the Spurs, you'll find guys that were drafted (Duncan, Parker & Ginobili) surrounded by key players from FA signings and trades. The same is true of Phoenix, Dallas, Denver and Seattle. Sure they have had their busts as well (Charlie Ward) but somehow, their mistakes don't impact them as much as our mistakes do here because theirs is a smart organization. That's not the case here where Yao is the only Rockets draft pick in the past 5 years contributing to the team.

To win championships, you start at the top (owner, GM, Scouting) and that's where improvement here must begin before the Rockets can even begin to think about overtaking the Spurs. Oh and don't expect the Spurs or any of the others to stand pat while this happens because they have shown that they are more than capable of finding good players that can help them win.

 

The first thing we have to do to move up to elite status with the Spurs, and Detroit, and Phoenix is establish some sort of identity. Are we going to be one of these teams that run a high octane offense (like Phoenix and Miami) or are we going to be a scrappy defensive minded team like the Pistons and Spurs? Once they figure out what direction the team is heading in, get players that all compliment that direction. The worst thing the Rockets can do is just stockpile a bunch of big name talents regardless of fit, like Dallas and Memphis.

The Rockets also need to drastically improve their starting lineup. If you compare our starting 5 to the starting 5 of Phoenix, Detroit, and San Antonio, it's not even close (especially in the backcourt). I would gladly get rid of the depth in our backourt to get 2 starting caliber guards. Depth doesn't win championships. None of the teams left in the playoffs have depth. They're all 6 or 7 deep.

Basically, I think the Rockets are still 3 starters away from being in San Antonio's class. A power forward that does the dirty work, a swingman that can be the 3rd option on offense, and a smart floor general point guard that can be trusted to handle the ball in crucial situations.

 

yao and DEKE can not be on the court at the same time

 

Honestly I think this is way overblown. The Spurs are in their position for 2 reasons, the lucked (tanked) in the best year to have the #1 overall pick over the last decade, and they were ahead of the league in recruiting Euro leagues. Both dynamics have changed.

What people forget is the Rose, Rasha, and Barry signings, they signed some bad contracts that shot their cap space. They were in a great position with cap space for a couple of years and didn't add any special young players. They are living off Duncan and Manu (soon to be 28, no spring chicken), and to a lesser extent, Parker (the youngest, but most overrated of the three). The minute Duncan or Manu physically slows their contender status is cooked.

IMO Houston and Phx (assuming they decide to work on team defense) will stay at the contender status for a number of years after the Spurs fade. I think we can be right with them next year with a couple of tweeks.

 

Houston Trades:

C Yao Ming
SF Tracy McGrady
SG David Wesley
PG Bob Sura
PF Juwan Howard
PF Scott Padgett
SF Ryan Bowen
PG Mike James
PG Moochie Norris
PF Vin Baker
PF Clarence Weatherspoon
C Dikembe Mutombo
SG Jon Barry
PG Charlie Ward
PF Torraye Braggs

Houston Recieves:

PF Tim Duncan
SG Manu Ginobili
PG Tony Parker
SF Bruce Bowen
C Nazr Mohammed
SG Brent Barry
PG Beno Udrih
PF Tonny Massenburg
C Rasho Nesterovic
PG Mike Wilks
PF Robert Horry
C Sean Marks
SF Devin Brown

San Antonio Trades:

PF Tim Duncan
SG Manu Ginobili
PG Tony Parker
SF Bruce Bowen
C Nazr Mohammed
SG Brent Barry
PG Beno Udrih
PF Tonny Massenburg
C Rasho Nesterovic
PG Mike Wilks
PF Robert Horry
C Sean Marks
SF Devin Brown

San Antonio Recieves:

C Yao Ming
SF Tracy McGrady
SG David Wesley
PG Bob Sura
PF Juwan Howard
PF Scott Padgett
SF Ryan Bowen
PG Mike James
PG Moochie Norris
PF Vin Baker
PF Clarence Weatherspoon
C Dikembe Mutombo
SG Jon Barry
PG Charlie Ward
PF Torraye Braggs

TRADE ACCEPTED

 

Hillboy I like your posts because they are right on the money.

 

You talk like the Spurs are going to stay pat with what they got. The Spurs have been contenders for a lot years and their is a reason behind that. Every year they make moves to keep them at the top and because they have a competitive GM.

 

No way I do this as the Spurs get too much!! If we can keep Braggs then I'd do it, but Braggs is the key to the whole deal.

 

First, Manu is 26. Second, Jordan got his first ring when he was 28, and we all know what happend to NBA after that.

 

If Rox can get Gregg Popovich somehow, Rox will pass Spurs sooner. Otherwise, we have to wait and hope Duncan becomes older sooner.

 

As long as we have JVG the '4' position will be a Defend & Rebound position so people worrying about getting offense from the 4 needn't. The key to the Spurs these days is Manu. Stop him and you stop the Spurs, more or less. TD & TP will get theirs, yes, but if you stop MG, IMO you have a chance to beat them consistantly. What we need is our regular good team defense and a 'stopper' SG to guard Manu, a PG that has handles, defends Tony as much possible, and makes the entry pass to Yao. TMac prooved in the Dallas series that he can not be the major 'O' and the major 'D', he just ran out-of-gas toward the end.

SO: We need a Stopper 2 like Bowen (Not ours, theirs)

We need a Rebounding, Defensive 4 like Chandler (I know,I know)
We need a Good young 1 like ?

We already have 3 & 5 so we just need everything else.

Or, we can get P.J. and he'll fix everything with the "FORCE".

 

1st, Manu turns 28 in July, we forget not only is he not nearly as good as Tmac, he is about 2 years older than Tmac (older than most other true elite 2s as well like Kobe, Wade, Lebron). As for Jordan, he was putting up double Manu's 16PPG when he was Manu's age--those comparisons should end. Most SG's, excluding pure shooters like Reggie or those that defy explanation like Jordan, really start tailling off after 30. Note, none of the 10 leading SGs are less than 30, the closest is Ray Allen at 29, and he fits that pure shooter description. Manu is never going to be 1st or 2nd team all-nba type player, and doubtfull real consideration for 3rd team. Fine player, should make the all-star team some years (probably should not have this year, but o well), but not the kind of elite player to carry a team once Duncan slows (though Duncan just might be effective longer anyway).

I already answered this. Reason #1 is Tim Duncan. Distant 2nd reason is they were ahead of the league in Euro scouting (Manu, Parker). Still if the didn't get the #1 overall pick the year TD was available, no rings, no finals appearence, no nada. I won't pretend te same isn't true for us (Hakeem, maybe Yao down the line), but some franchises built champions without such #1 overall pick luck (Lakers, Bulls, Pistons) and others have built elite teams with much less good fortune of the ping pong ball (Pistons again here, plus Phx, Utah, Indy, Mia, Sac). The Spurs by no means are in a class by themself in the front offices despite what a couple of idiot pundits looking for headlines may say.

Further, the factors that got where the Spurs are (TD, Euro scouting when no one else was there) are gone unless they tank again to get the #1 overall pick when the next TD is available. Sure they won't stand pat, but the key reasons they got the team where they are gone, they have little in draft options (traded away and likely to be late anyway) and have been far less than special in free agency even when their cap space was aligned (resigned Rose to bad contract, only came away with Rasha and Barry during that period). Their elite horizon corresponds with how long Tim Duncan (29) and to a lesser extent Ginobili (27.9) can stay at the top of their game. With a 26 year old Tmac and a close to 25 year old Yao we should peak a number of years after the Spurs fade. Further, we are better off in draft picks and fincancial flexibility, the Spurs won't be able to do much until 08 and have lots of money tied into guys who won't be doing much but dead weight in 07 and 08.

 

To answer the thread's original question, just keep doing what we're already doing.

The Spurs are a model to follow for every team in the NBA in just about every regard. Everything from their coaching to scouting to their roster moves. Rarely, does this team make any real mistakes in regards to anything happening off of the playing court. They have a solid foundation and the scouting knack for adding just the right role players. Their overall team chemistry has never been an issue and they are arguably the most competitive and well coached team in the league. All this while having one of the league's lowest payrolls is just incredible.

Pop is probably the best in the business right now. While JVG doesn't have the hardware to compare, I do think JVG is a strong and smart enough coach to perhaps one day get us to that level. In terms of foundation, ours is just as good as their's. T-Mac and Yao speak for themselves. I don't believe Yao has peaked yet and T-Mac just proved every critique wrong by showing he DOES have the all-around game needed to dominate on both ends of the floor. Our problem is the Spurs role players trounce ours. I have all the love in the world for our role players but it's more than fair to say they aren't on the Spurs level.

My conclusion is its our role players and experience seperating us from being on the Spurs level. I really believe CD is a smart enough GM to get the job done. He's realized this weakness and pulled off some brilliant midseason trades (Barry, Wesley) to improve the team from that standpoint. The problem is, its not good enough. We need another upgrade or two.

As far as experience, that comes with time. T-Mac will get out of the 1st round and beyond that for all his detractors---as will Yao. Bottom line is the team is still a work-in-progress and I really think we're only a move or two away from the start of something great. Just be patient, I know I will be.

 

Pop in the interview basically said the key to the franchise was getting the ping pong ball for DR and then TD. Pop knows TD is what makes it all work and makes all the other players better, they just had to not screw it up. Personally I think it shows how bad the Rockets were managed most of Hakeem's years, if they were even mediocre with other moves before 92 they still should have been a top 3 team in the West most of those years.

Great players (Duncan, Shaq, Jordan, Hakeem) make other players and coaches greater than they are, and front office's look like geniouses. To me a lot more said is when you don't get that ping pong ball player but stay right there over many years through savvy acquisitions and good drafts that are not nobrainers (Yao, Duncan, Shaq), for example what the Lakers (pre-West leaving), Pistons, Suns, and Kings did.

So is SA a fine organization, yes. Are they THE model for all others, let us reserve judgement until see what happens when Duncan is not the best (ar at least one of the top 3) player in the league.

 

We keep hearing of how the Spurs are the "model" organization. However, I believe we don't need to follow their "model" at all. We have strengths of our own at this point, and have no need to feel inferior to anyone. We have a superstar SG, and a potential superstar C. That is the killer combo that has defeated the Spurs in the past. I have a theory as to why this is the case. Duncan is really a C/PF with a strong C disposition, but with the footwork to guard Pf's. However, even with his immense skill level, Duncan is limited by one thing, his lack of true athleticism.

When another true bigman comes into his own at a larger size, aka Shaq/Yao, Duncan seems to have trouble getting his shot off. However, these guys can't guard him for 48 minutes because they will inevitably foul out. So the right mix of a defensive pf w/ spot guard duty by Yao will limit Duncan.

I don't believe we are that far away from contending with the Spurs/ any organization.
Truly, we may soon be the "model" organization around the league, as even with the spur's solid draft choices, our one-two punch may make all of that irrelevant.

The rest of their team is solid, however, I believe the sentiment that that team ultimately goes where Duncan takes them, and when/if Yao rises to the challenge with another pf, we will be the team for them to fear.

 

We need to tank the next time a Tim Duncan is coming out.