If Posey is let go, no trade for a forward would be a killer

No need to risk paying the lux tax, when it is verly likely to be there next year.

You can always get a Posey-like player through trade. Frankly, a player like him with an average 6 mil a year is hard to trade out but easy to acquire.

We are not going anywhere next year, so there is really no need to take the tax penalty. Once Rice's contract is over or after he is traded out, we have a better idea what we need. Also we have a chance to see how EG and Nachbar play out on 3. If we still need a Posey-like SF, then we can always get one through trade for no more than 6 mil a year. No-flash hussle SF are abundent.

 

Honestly, I thought that he was just what we needed when we got him, and it did hurt to see KT go. All that we have to offer is the Midlever exception? How frugle, I can't beleive that we wouldn't do it. We do need this type of player badly, he plays D so well, and his rebounding is phenomenol when he really crashes the boards. Think about it, last year it was not unusual to see him grab 10 boards, and with a presently perimeter oriented 4, he is just what we need. I think that we have to resign him, alot of people here seem to agree, I just don't see a down-side to signing him for that money.

 

Too much down-side risk! He gets 6 mil a year and he can decide to become lazy and play softer. In that case, you are stuck with his contract, you can't trade him out because he is overpaid, and you will have no money to acquirer FA except using the MLE and pay a lot of lux tax.

Let's see how Pike, EG, Nachbar do next year. If JVG can transform EG into a good SF, and one of Pike or Nachbar is good on SF, then we don't lose anything by letting Posey go, and we save the money. If Pike turns out to be better at 2, then we trade away Cat for a SF, or PF. Cat's contract is good for trading a MLE level players. If we offer Cat to Memphis for Posey, I believe they will very likely take it.

The point is you keep your options open, and do not over commit when you are not serious contender. For someone like Posey, you can always get in the future without paying lux tax, and after you try out your current plan.

One more mistake like Taylor or Moochie will ruin our chance at championship.

 

Teams don't become contenders overnight. They have to play together for a while to become really good. Posey fits what the Rockets need from their SF. Match the offer and allow the starting five grow into a contender cos they're all still young. It's a bad attitude to say since we're not winning it all this year, then we should just let players leave, especially when the player IS a piece of the puzzle.

 

How long has Posey grown with the rest of the team? Half a season! Is that worth to pay high premium over? NO!

It is plain stupid not to plan for the future. If we signed Posey, then for next two years, we have nothing more than MLE to offer. The option will be extremly limited, and the summers will be boring too.

Posey is NOT piece of the puzzle, OK? You can get a handful of replacement for him through trade. You can get one any year, for no more than what he demand now. It is not like we lose someone we can't replace.

Yao and SF are our corner stones. We are looking for the supporting cast which are easier to find. We still have fope to find that in EG, Nachbar, Cat, etc.

 

Posey at 5M is a good deal. That's why we should match it.Because we need more reasonable contracts.

We should try to dump one of our bad contracts, and start replacing them with sensible contracts like Mobley's, Posey's, or Piatowski's.

Maybe Utah is desperate for a PF and will take on MoTaylor? They'd love to have Rice, it's like reserving capsapce. But they have 2 Small Forwards (Harpring and Kirilenko).

Rice and MoT for Harpring and Deshawn Stevenson?

Whatever. I just hope the Rockets have a plan, and this is not the final roster.

 

From Sane:

I'm with Sane and Desert Scar here. I like Posey's game now and his potential. I want the Rockets to keep an eye out for 2 years down the line too, but there's too much information we don't know yet about what's going on now.

First and foremost is if they'll be a luxury tax this season. There's been a lot of contradictory reports out there. But I'd bet the farm that there's not an NBA owner of GM that doesn't already know.

But I am surprised so many here are saying it's no big deal to let Posey go. Is it Brand-lust, "big splash" envy or what? Posey looks like a poster-boy to me for what the MLE is worth, especially given his age and continual improvement in the NBA.

I like Pike, I think he'll help the team, but if we let Posey go and stand pat, this offseason has been a joke. Alexander and CD have got to be deciding between Posey and someone else.

If not, the organization has really changed. And I think Alexander has miscalculated badly with his money.

 

My opinions are further expressed in hottoddie's poll, but I will summarize here:

1) I have a hunch Posey will always exceed Boki in every department. Yes, shooting. Posey's 3-pt set shot was improving.
2) Major contributions in several games: Posey single-handedly won two Denver games and the away Toronto game (and was the man vs. the last LA home game though we lost) so if you're talking about downgrading the SF position, we have to improve that much more to make up for his departure. (I don't include games like the final Chicago, Memphis, or Philly games, where he tore it up but we would have won anyway). After the first week or two where he struggled to define his role, the shooting and scoring really improved. If you look at the last Grizzlies boxscore. Posey had 16 points and 15 boards . Guess Memphis had enough of the guy!
3) I don't understand those who correctly point out Yao and Franchise are the cornerstones but then don't want Posey. He's a player that contributes on offense and defense. He's a force on the break, on the boards, and is not an ISO-fiend. Van Gundy is not a miracle worker, you can't expect those qualities in Posey to automatically start showing up in abundance in all of our other players.
4) Four years at MLE is not a big gamble. MoT's contract, now that was a gamble (an unwise one at that). I could be wrong, but Posey doesn't come off as a player that will tank now that he's been paid. I think he's out there to win.
5) We're already over the salary cap forever, so from this point it's improve thru trades, draft, or MLE players. Not signing Posey does not change this. It may or may not affect Les's pocketbook this year, but Rice does come off next year (and others like Maloney eventually).

Bottom-line, if he improves that three-point shot just a little bit, you've got yourself a championship-team caliber role player (because of his multiple talents). Just try grabbing one of those in a future year with just the MLE, without it being matched.

 

No offense, but this doesn't make any sense.

No one is going to transform Griffin into a SF. He has no handles. He very well may be a great PF someday, and may be able to switch and defend SF's in the right match-ups, but he's no small forward.

Pike is a great shooter who is a 2 guard. He can play some SF with the right match-up, but Paitkowski is just an excellent shooter and role player (that I'm delighted we have!). He's not a small forward.

Nachbar is an unknown that's not tearing it up in the summer league.

Cat is a superb bargain at his contract and shouldn't be moved unless we are getting a 3rd star with a package of Mobes and someone else and/or picks. He's not someone you trade for an MLE player. That's nuts.

Van Gundy isn't a miracle worker. He's not going to turn water into wine. Let's hope he just turns out to be the perfect coach for the Rocks. And if we don't replace Posey with a high caliber small forward in a deal and instead go with what we have, our GM is nuts.

 

Well, somewhere I read that JVG is considering playing EG as 3. I can see EG play 3/4 down the road.

both Pike and Nachbar can play 2 or 3. There is no question about that. They may lack on defense, that we have to see how JVG improve.

I didn't make it clear last time. Cat's contract is higher than a MLE. So that means he can be traded for a MLE player plus something, or a pick. When his contract expires in two years, he will probably get a MLE or something slightly over, but not much.

Les is not Cuban, and he is not going to pay extra year after year. This year, we are going to get better and we are not going to be a serious contender , with or without Posey. You want Les to pay now and he will may stingy later. I'd rather suck up this coming season, and let Les pay when it counts!

You keep forgetting the lux tax. Though it is not a sure thing, judging from the way teams do this offseason, I think GMs know the lux tax will be enforced next year.

 

If we shave around 2M off of salary, can we sign Posey?

In this case, I suggest we send kelvin Cato and Mo Taylor to the Heat for Brian Grant. This shaves around 2-3M off our payroll. Let's say it's 2.5M. So then, Posey's offer starts at 4.9M, and after this deal, we'd have 2.5M more distance from the luxury tax.

How close are we to the luxury tax, and is 2.5M enough room for us to be able to re-sign Posey without hitting it?

This is my favourite offseason scenario yet. Check it out:

Yao/Grant
Grant/Griffin
Posey/Rice/Boki
Mobley/Pike
Francis/Mooch


We STILL have room for trade with players like Rice, griffin, and Mobley still on our hands. But I'd be happy with the F situation here, Posey and Grabt are teh perfect hardworkers/defenders to compliment our stars. Swapping Cato and MoT for Grant means there are more shots available on the team. In this case, I'd be more willing to keep Mobley, because more shots are available now. Posey and Grant don't really demand any shots, so there should be enough touches for all. This would also be one of the best defensive teams in the league. Rice's contract expires, once again keeping us from paying LT.

Thoughts?

 

Great deal.

- Our frontcourt would play TOUGH defense. Grant and Posey are the right players to play next to Yao.

- Griffin develops safely behind Grant, without the pressure of having to start

- Grant's deal expires at the same time we have to resign Yao

- We can pick any scrub to be our 3rd tier center

However, I would prefer to deal Rice and Mo to Miami and KEEP Cato, or maybe if they are desperate enough Rice and Moochie. I'm sure we can find a deal for Mo later.

And I would still trade Cuttino for Eric Snow.

Line-up:

Yao/Cato
Grant/Griffin
Posey/Nachbar
Francis/Pike
Snow/?

That would still leave Mo to be traded and a veteran PG like Mark Jackson or Kenny Anderson to be signed.

Or we could keep Mobley to see how he and Francis can be worked into JVG's system, but still, I would prefer to keep Cato at this point.

 

I really love the team you built Thanos. However, I can't stand having 3 PF's again, and I don't think there's another team right now that would take Mo off our hands. Besides, they wouldn't go for a Rice + MoT trade (I don't think so at least) because they have Jones, Butler, and possibly Odom. When they lose Grant, then they don't have a C or a PF. grant would've played ONE of these. In his place, we give them both starters. it's also a matter of Griffin developing, chemistry, and keeping Mobley FOR THE MOMENT. I can't help but think you're line-up would have a bit trouble scoring, but admittedly are defensively better.

Overall, of course I prefer your deal. However, I think Miami would not settle for Rice + MoT or Rice + Moochie. I think they're looking towards improving the PF/C positions, because they have Butler, Jones, possibly Odom, and Dwayne Wade. Right now, the best thing for them would be to make our deal, get odom, and sign Kenny Anderson to a minimum contract. tehy'd still have space to go after another piece worth around 4M.

Cato/Stepania
MoT/Odom
Butler/Odom
Jones/Butler
Anderson/Wayde/Butler

I don't know how they'd work the starters at the 2/3 out, but I know Caron Butler has been playing the PG position this whole summer, and I know that Odom can play 4 positions. For all we know, they'll start him Jones and butler in the backcourt, and play Odom as Point Forward.

Yao/Grant
Grant/Griffin
Posey/Rice/Boki
Mobley/Pike
Francis/Mooch

I think it's very realistic, and gives us the option to stay put VERY confortably, or acquire yet another big piece (Griff + Rice for SAR).

 

The Grant trade seems fairly good for both teams. We like having Cato around, but at the same time I hate the fact that he has to play behind Yao when he could be putting up 10/10/3 every night.

I think Riley would do it, he says the team is rebuilding, and he can secure this with getting rid of a bloated contract and picking up a quality center.

We get a tough defender and a great rebounder, and of course we get to keep Posey.

I hate the idea of helping teams in the west that are below you. I don't want Posey to help that team get a few extra wins off of us; knowing our ups and downs, we will need every win we can get.

 

Sane, I always like your trade scenarios. I pretty much always agree with them. This again is the case.

To trade Mo-T and Cato for Grant is a great deal. I love the fact we get Grant AND keep Griffin. So it solves our "short term" problem at PF but also leaves us a "long term" possible solution at PF with Griffin. That is golden!

Additionally since Grant will come off the cap around the same time Yao is up for an extension it does not hurt us. Grant's next contract will be for a lot less for sure. Plus in this scenario the Rockets can KEEP Rice and just let his contract slide off the books this year to offset Grant's huge contract. Makes perfect sense here. I like the hard nosed gritty forward combo of Grant and Posey. They could do ALL the dirty work while Yao, Francis and Mobley score the points. I think if the Rockets DID do that deal they would still have to look in the FA market for a scrub center because I think we would need one more big body to back up Yao. Grant is a nice makeshift backup for Yao but I think you need one more "big" in there to battle in the West.

As for what Miami gets in the trade, they lose Grant but gain Mo-T. Mo's offensive game is much better than Grant's and would mesh well in Miami's system giving them a low post threat that they don't have. Plus they get a legit center in Cato which they don't have. Cato can do all the dirty work that Grant used to do and probably would do well working for Pat Riley and against the weaker centers in the East.

Good trade all the way around, especially financially.

 

Glad to see that there are those who agree with me. It's no secret that we need defense and a stout power forward; but I believe that our decisions, and any pending trades, would involve Miami.

First of all, will Odom sign with Miami? Would LAC match or let him go? Is Odom safer just signing a one-year tender offer (if one is extended to him) or trying to jump ship now, as he wants?

If Odom takes a one-year offer with a tacit understanding Miami will make a run at him next year, when LAC can't screw up the plans, we can include Rice in a deal to Miami now, as his contract comes off the books next summer. Rice still has a home there, and would enjoy winding down his career for the Heat. He already has his ring.

I have always thought that if Cat is truly on the block (and why wouldn't he be?) just to see what bites we can get, then why not include him in a deal to Miami to re-pair him with Rhode Island buddy Odom?

Still, so much depends on what we obviously don't know. Are there other trades in the works that would preclude re-signing Posey? Will a Yao-Grant-Mo frontline be enough? Will Grant do OK at backup center? Because Miami needs a serviceable center and Cato is, at worst, just that. For us, he's 16 minutes a game. Insurance.

 

I rather like Sane's trade proposal and thought I'd run it through RealGM to show that it WILL work. The question is: Would Miami really do this deal? I'm sure they'd rather have Rice + Cato than MoT + Cato. Perhaps throwing in Chicago's 2 second-round draft pick obligations might help convince them to take MoT instead of Rice (or is that giving up too much?).

Houston trades: PF Maurice Taylor (8.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 20.6 minutes)
C Kelvin Cato (4.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.1 minutes)
Houston receives: PF Brian Grant (10.3 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 32.2 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -2.6 ppg, +0.8 rpg, and 0.0 apg.

Miami trades: PF Brian Grant (10.3 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 32.2 minutes)
Miami receives: PF Maurice Taylor (8.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 67 games)
C Kelvin Cato (4.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 73 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.6 ppg, -0.8 rpg, and 0.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

 

The trade proposal makes sense, but won't we just get a even shorter roster list? That will be a problem.

 

Sane, Thanos, HotRocket, Deuce, and Desert Scar - I AGREE!

Man...I was going to agree like 30 minute earlier but the BBS stopped responding when I tried to respond.

Anyways...it's a great trade. And I always like Sane's trades too.

MoT and Cato is not enough for Brian Grant? Why not? Add a 2nd rounder then. I wouldn't add a first rounder though. I would add a first rounder if they give us a signed Stepania.

And then we can resign my 3rd favorite player...James Posey!!!

Brian Grant is decent...like MoT and Cato. But he fits our team better...and it would be a good chance for Griffin to steadily improve off the bench. And we get Posey!!!!!!!!