Why is there any confusion about Obama's history? Now I will admit, I don't care enough about the guy's personal life to have bothered trying to find out any of this, but I have to say, from an 'outsider's viewpoint', it does seem like there is some ambiguity regarding his past. I don't understand how this can be.. the guy is about as close as a person can be to becoming the President of the United States, and the amount of vetting that should have gone on should have wiped clear any of that ambiguity a long time ago. And yet, this perception remains, and maybe I just haven't been looking in the right places, I don't know. Again, not that I care that much - he's Jimmy Carter all over again, and that alone is reason enough not to vote for the man. However, because I am a bit curious, and because I imagine that there are people here who can say a little more than 'Yes he is' or 'No he's not' regarding certain aspects of his history, I will just go ahead and ask: Was Barack Hussein Obama born into a muslim family or not? Yes or no? Was he raised 'as a muslim'? Yes or no? (Let me clarify that - the term 'raised' is vague - was his childhood 'muslim' in any way, and if so, exactly how and to what degree?) If he has no connection to islam, then why does he have an islamic name? I am not trying to be facetious here, it just seems rather obvious that there is an islamic element there by virtue of his very name, and if it is not there, what is the actual explanation? If he did not attend 'madrassas' or whatever else they call the 'islamic' schools, then exactly which schools did he attend, and when? Is this verified, and checked and re-checked? Just like on a resume, are any 'gaps' properly explained? Apart from all of this, is anyone making the distinction between 'black islam', of 'elijah mohammed', and actual islam? (because they are not really related entities, despite the propensity for the 'black muslims' of elijah mohammed to take on arabic names) Which 'islam' is the islam which has given Obama his arabic name? *** Ok, apart from all of that, here is my issue and answer to the poll: If a person is an actual devout muslim, then no, in way should that person be allowed to become President. Why? Islam recognizes no higher authority than Islam. The President is sworn to uphold the Constitution as the highest authority, and to protect the United States above all else. Islam, above all else, promotes islam, and requires loyalty to itself above all other loyalties. The thing people need to try to understand is that the notion of 'separation of church and state' which exists here in the U.S. does not exist in many other parts of the world, particularly in the islamic world. Islam is not just a religion, is demands that it be the dominant force in any nation, including its laws and governing every aspect of every person's life. Sharia Law, anyone? Look all over Europe. Heck, look in Canada. This is not a joke, people. So it's not just a matter of saying 'it's just a religion', because it's not. Now, all that said, just like anything else, there are the devout, and then there are 'not so devout'. I would say that, *if* it were determined that Obama has had some formal education in islam, that that in itself would not be enough to say that he should be disqualified from being President. Heck, I myself have become much more educated about islam over the past decade, and frankly, MORE knowledge about islam is what we all need, not less. Anyway, I hope people are able to answer those honest questions above. Yes, I make no secret of being conservative, and I don't care what liberal is on the ballot, I am not going to vote for him or her. The question of Obama's supposed islamic ties is more or less a side-show to me. Thanks
Christians recognize no higher authority than God, its no different, almost every religion puts their god first. Certainly Jews, Christians, and Muslims, whether you be shia, sunni, protestant catholic, orthodox or whatever, God comes first, in theory.
But Jesus Christ himself taught to respect the law of the land, and to "pay unto Ceasar" and all that jazz. In Islam, the religion IS the law of the land.
To follow up on Pgab's point as he notes that standard would disqualify a lot of people particularly devout Catholics as they have to recognize the primacy of the Papacy. In fact this was one of the main arguments that opponents used against JFK. As for the main topic since my congressman is the first Muslim elected to national office in US and haven't seen Sharia law imposed on Minneapolis I would have no problem voting for Obama if he was a Muslim.
Fair enough. The problem is that very few devout christians will acknowledge this aspect of christ's teachings when put in a position capable of usurping secular ideologies. In that respect, there is no distinction between christianity and islam.
No, there are many fundamental differences between the (for lack of a better word) 'philosophies' of Christianity and of islam. Islam is, in addition to being a religion of sorts, is in reality also a system of earthly governance. Christianity is in no way analogous to this. In Christianity, there is the concept of 'free will' which then allows for 'self-determination' and self-governance. This concept does not exist in islam. In any case, I hope this thread does not become some kind of religious debate thread. I merely answered the poll and asked a few sincere questions about Obama. If people want to try to turn it into a religious debate, or try to get into discussions all about how islam is 'the same' as Christianity, then I will leave you all to it. Not gonna participate in that.
Really? 'Very few devout Christians' will acknowledge this aspect of Christ's teachings when put in a position capable of usurping secular ideologies? Really? And you base this breathtaking statement upon... what exactly? Your own opinion? Look, you made it clear in other threads that you look down on Christianity and Christians. Fair enough. Everyone can choose for themselves. But making such statements only makes you look ridiculous.
Sorry, didn't finish.. AND THEN, oh boy.. To make your first statement, and then to follow up with "In that respect, there is no distinction between christianity and islam." Wow. No distinction between them, eh? Wow. Well.. the nice thing about Free Will is, you are free to believe any outrageously absurd thing you want. And the nice thing about Freedom of Speech is that it makes it easier for you to share your thoughts with the world. Which, in turn, allows people to make much more informed decisions as to exactly how much weight to give various peoples' opinions. So I thank you for helping us all have a better ability to determine how seriously you should be taken.
I would make a great president. My first act would be to change my ClutchFans name to PresRhester My second action as president would be to invite Morey and Adelman to the White House so we could talk Rockets.
Uh yes. In that respect. Please read the statement again if you are having trouble with it. On mountains of easy-to-find evidence that people who are (or claim to be) devoutly religious usually find this religious viewpoint inseperable from politics. I really don't feel it necessary to link data here, as it's more than patently obvious. Feel free to google this topic on your own time. For the sake of "current events" you could start with Mike Huckabee, our beloved George W. Bush, or even the teaching of ID in the classroom. I would disagreee with that statement, and I'd think you'd have trouble proving it true. Certainly, I have my issues with religions, but I'm hardly anti-christian. Your prejudgement is duly noted however. Likewise. EDIT: The point is that I'd feel uneasy about any presidential candidate who paraded around an intensely devout stance towards any religion.
from someone who is not a practicing Christian, I see no differences between a christian president and a muslim president. certain aspects of both scare me as far as choosing a leader...
I don't really care if he is/was/or will be a Muslim. Now if he's a Terrorist, then that is a different story.
If Obama was Muslim he wouldn't be where he is, I'm surprised by the # of people in here who stated they would vote for him, I guess Houston is quite multicultural so I guess I shouldn’t be.... Watching CNN/FOX News it’s hard not to get brainwashed to hate Muslims, hell I would IF I got my news from them.....
No, I can read, thank you. Simply saying 'In that respect' however does not validate the statement, as the original statement you base it on is a ridiculous one. There IS no 'in that respect', because it is an absurdity built on top of another absurdity. No, you said USURP. Now you are changing it to mean that a person's religion can inform and guide his or her decisions. Please show some of your 'mountains of evidence' that anyone, Huckabee, Bush, or anyone else, has or would 'usurp' the power of the elected office and instead install some sort of Christian government in its place. Again, I do know how to read what you actually wrote. You are right. For some reason I had you confused with someone else. I looked through the other thread I was thinking of, and I made a mistake. It was not you. My apologies. Had no intention of getting sucked into this sort of thing, but really, your first statement was so far out there in its utter lack of understanding of either Christians, Christianity *or* islam, it simply could not be allowed to flow right on by unanswered. I am not going to argue with you, I can see it would be a pointless exercise.
no. his stepfather was a "free spirited" (read non-devout) muslim and Obama was registered as muslim when he attended school in Indonesia no. he attended catholic school in indonesia http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-070325obama-islam-story,0,7180545.story please re-read above link
We can now proceed to arguing over the exact meaning of usurp. If that word in particular bugs you, I'm open to changing my stance to something a little less vehment. But not much. No problem. Me neither. If the problem is the word choice "usurp", let's change it to "bend". Either way I'd find it of concern. Well, you did. And it has not been pointless, IMO.
JEROME! JEROME! PUT ON THAT BOBBY WOMACK!!! As for the thread topic...I'd vote for Obama. But I won't pretend that a person's faith isn't indicative of how they're going to feel about all sorts of issues they encounter...or that it wouldn't influence how someone would lead a business, a community group or even the United States of America. My faith directly affects how I view humanity.
Cool, thank you. So his step-father was non-devout muslim, and his last name was Soetoro. So where did the Obama name come from? Interesting stuff.. I may not like the guy's policies, but I want no part of dishonesty or misinformation either.
