If not for Pistons, Rockets may have had 6th pick

Well, I'm in the minority, too. Let's rise up against our oppressors, BGM.

I'm thinking Woods won't be there but I see a trade of #13 with Cato. Johnson and Morris at 18 and 23.

------------------

 

BGM, you are forgetting the Rockets still owe the Grizzlies a 1st round draft pick in the future. Moving the 3 draft picks would not only have allowed the Rockets to possibly get the guy they WANT(i'm not saying who that is ) but also would have canceled out that future obligation.

3 draft picks for 2, one of them a high one.

------------------
snap crackle pop

 

Question for the pick experts:

Why couldn't have Houston sent their 22nd pick (now 23rd) to Vancouver before June 1, which Vancouver could have then sent to Detroit? We could have got something in return for that right?

Also, Why did Orlando have to give us the 18th pick, couldn't they have sent us the 23rd pick?

Thanks

------------------

 

BGM and ROXTXIA, Isn't CD on record saying we are flipping the #18th to Vanc? I don't see how that changes, now.

Also, can someone treat me like a four-yr-old, too, and explain to me Vancouver's obligation with Detroit next year? Does it have to be Vanc's own pick, or just any pick within a certain position?

I ask because I don't see how they let THIS #6 go just to preserve next years pick, which is not known, yet. This #6 can land Chandler or Diop pretty much for certain! It can also land them a SAR replacement in White. This pick is way to juicy in my mind for Vanc to worry too much about next year, which is a total unknown. Plus, if they can use an acquired #1 next yr to give to Detroit, they can just do this all over again next year, and likely land one of those 1st rounders by pulling the SAR trade, finally.

It sucks for them to owe a pick next year, but it really would suck to lose the #6 this year. The Rocket's package would not be worth it to me.

Question

If you were Vanc, considering this draft, what deal is better:

SAR for the 3 picks and Walt (which Clutch reported at one time)

#6 for the 3 picks

To me, they are close to even (considering SAR still wants out, right?). If SAR wants out, you certainly need this year's draft pick, and use SAR to land a valuable draft pick for next year. So, if they are close to even, why didn't Vanc pull the SAR trade earlier?

My gut instinct is that both trades are confirmed rumors that actually went nowhere at the negotiating table. I'm not really feeling like Detroit screwed us. One thing is for sure, I'm glad I don't know! Because I damn sure would pull that 3 for 1 in a second.


[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited June 04, 2001).]

 

Which makes the question, why did the Rockets want the 18th pick after this deal fell through? Remember the

We all know the Rockets don't want 3 rookies, let alone 3 guaranteed contracts. So why not wait and get that pick later?

The Rockets have some sort of plan in mind, we'll have to wait to see what it is.

heyparty-Detroit didn't screw us directly. But by getting Orlando to delay, they caused us to lose out on the oppurtunity for that #6 pick of Vancouver's.

Here's to hoping that the Mirsad Turkcan trade falls down on Detroit, and someone screws them, too.

Vancouver doesn't have to accept #18. They would've accepted it before to pass to Detroit, but it's too late for that. Now we better hope that we improve this season, so we don't end up giving Van. a lotto pick.

I can't help but feel that the Rockets aren't particularly enamored with anyone at #13, and that that'll be the pick to go.
------------------
"That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.

[This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited June 04, 2001).]

 

This deal for Vanc giving the #18 to Detroit is not the same as us satisfying our obligation with Vanc. right? My understanding is CD will still flip the #18 to Vanc. As Clutch says, it is the worst pick we can give them.

Can someone confirm whether we can still give Vanc the 18th this year, or did we pass some type of deadline, too.


[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited June 04, 2001).]

 

I think I'm with BGM and ROXTXIA (unless there's some workout info we don't know about). I'd rather have the 13, 18 and 23. T. Morris, Ken Johnson and #13 sounds a lot better than the #6.

I also like the notion that Detroit's player acquisition boxes out the Knicks from acquiring Webber.

Now if Outlaw and Doleac end up in Sacramento...

------------------
You're a fine woman, why don't you mock that draft up

 

partner-Vancouver only has to accept our own pick, or one within 3 spots of ours. They would've accepted it before so they could clear up the Detroit obligation, it's too late now, so unless Vancouver just wants the pick for their own use, they don't have to take it.

Clutch meant it was the worst pick Vancouver could give to Detroit.
------------------
"That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.

[This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited June 04, 2001).]

 

I was all for CD trying to move up with Vancouver. I was just thinking more on the lines of a 2 for 1 deal in picks. Maybe 13+18 for 6, not 13+18+23 for 6. I'm not too familiar on what picks the Grizz currently have, but if the Rockets could trade 3 picks and get 2 in return, I'd be fine. I just see 2 holes on this team that need to be filled, SF and C, one draft pick won't help fill both of our holes.

I'm not too familiar with our obligation to the Grizz, but if we make the playoffs, can't we just give them our first rounder then?

We're rebuilding now, they can have our first rounder after we get into the playoffs. Isn't next year's draft supposed to be weak also?

We wouldn't be missing out on much if we give up our first rounder next season, of course this is assuming we make the playoffs, if we don't then next summer is going to be very long and depressing.

------------------
They're loud, they're obnoxious and proud,
They are conscious but don't forget that theeeey're your future,
These kids are accused for all the violence,
You can't even keep them silent,
You...thought you had...all the answers...

 

This just in...

Billy Knight, GM of the Vancouver Grizzlies is in good spirits concerning the action now known as the 'Detroit pick block'.

"Hehe...", Knight was quoted as saying, "those bastards haven't realized yet... they made a trade with the VANCOUVER Grizzlies. We're not going to be the VANCOUVER Grizzlies next year. Hehe."

"Oh yeah", Knight added, "you should see our cap space for next year".


(AP)

------------------
You're a fine woman, why don't you mock that draft up

 

What a situation. Lots of four years olds today, count me in.

Is there a clause on what 1st round can and cannot go to Detroit, for next year? I know top 5 is protected, but does it have to be within a certain # of Vancouvers pick.

Why can't we trade up/down for #6, then Vancouver could trade 1 or 2 of those picks for a pick next year. The Rockets have certainly done this. Vancouver has a pick this year and 2 next year.

Clauses and leverage, by other teams knowledge of the situation, might stop this.



------------------
"Chucky who? I thought we were talking about basketball?" Charles Barkley

 

When are the Grizz management going to realize they are constantly getting ripped off. First the Rox steal Francis from them. They lose a top-ten pick next year from some stupid Otis Thorpe deal. Finally, they just about gift wrap a #6 pick to us, which eventually falls through. Not to mention Bigass Country's $80 million contract. What the hell are these guys thinking?

------------------
"Oh No..."
-Bill Walton in 97 just before Stockton's buzzer beater

 

Is it easier to fill your role player needs first or get that third impact player?

------------------

 

I think we already have our 3 impact players on this team in Francis, Mobley, and Taylor.

I know Taylor has a lot of flaws in his rebounding and defense, but I believe we can compensate for that by adding size to the SF and C positions.

I love that outside shot of his, it's money in the bank.

That's my vision of this team and I guess that's why I want to keep the picks. We already have our 3rd impact player in Taylor. Now we just need to surround him, Francis, and Mobley with roleplayers that won't demand the ball.

------------------
They're loud, they're obnoxious and proud,
They are conscious but don't forget that theeeey're your future,
These kids are accused for all the violence,
You can't even keep them silent,
You...thought you had...all the answers...

 

I agree with Jeff. I dont think rockets are going to keep those 3 picks. The contracts will hurt houston. I think rudy will package the picks to move up. Maybe to Boston?

------------------
"Break off the block like Maurice Green" --- Steve Francis

President of the Moochie Norris fan club.

 

Hope this clears some things up (not much, but some).

Vancouver now owes Detroit its pick next year and absolutely can not make any trades with that pick or to get another pick. The only thing that saves them is if it's top 5, then they have to give their pick (no trades again) to Detroit the next season unless it is 1 overall. Additionally, the worst the pick can be (provided a miracle happens and Vancouver becomes world champions or something) is the 18th. If the Grizz pick is worse than that Detroit does not have to accept it.

Vancouver was too passive for too long and got bitten because of it.

From what I understand Vancouver does not have to accept the 18th pick for the Francis deal (but would have if it helded them out of the Detroit fiasco).

There is, still, the possibility that Vancouver will work something out with Detroit so that they don't have to get completely mauled next season and they might need the 18th pick to do that. Who knows?

------------------

 

These picks are going to be much better than Langhi and Collier. We have a chance to add an athletic, defensive-minded SF in Jefferson, fill our backup 2-guard spot with Forte- who could be an excellent spark to bring off the bench when Cuttino's cold. Forte could be like a microwave- Vinnie Johnson- instant offense off the bench. We've also got a chance to add an Ratliff type defensive minded center in Ken Johnson.

------------------
"Oh No..."
-Bill Walton in 97 just before Stockton's buzzer beater

 

Thx NIKE/Hobbs for clearing up the trade scenario.

NIKE, I know that Detroit didn't screw us directly. I'm saying that I personally don't think they necessarily screwed us at all. As spot-on these rumors can be (and I'm sure this one is), it doesn't mean the rumor was going to execute. Many trades don't execute, and many trade talks don't even make it to the rumor mill.

I just don't see how earlier in the year Vanc takes off the table the SAR and our 3 picks, yet all of a sudden decides to pull this trade with the #6. I say this because I think the #6 has a great chance to be another SAR.

Our #13, 23 and their pick next yr sounds reasonable if each pick is a good one, but you KNOW that #6 in this draft will be good.

Plus if you are still looking to trade SAR, you can get maybe even a top 3 or 4 pick this year for him. That is definitely better than their earlier plans for SAR.

Anyone see what I'm trying to say? If they still want to move SAR, I don't see why they'd move their #6 as well. I would at all costs try to get two top 7s in this yr's crop, and just blow off the bad mistake scenario with Detroit.

Call me skeptical about that rumor trade actually executing, or call me someone wanting to help ease the pain for others who feel like we got screwed.

[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited June 04, 2001).]