If Miles and Miller are gone, I hope we don't pick Moiso!

I think Moiso would be a fine pick IF

1. The Rox dont think they are going to get a quality FA PF.

2. The Rox are gonna involve KT in a trade to get a starting FA PF.

I want 2 quality PFs on the Rocks roster.

If the Rocks pick up Croshere or Grant w/o having to give up KT, then draft some SF who will take Walts place in a few years.

But the Rockets greatest need is in the post. 2 quality PFs, get a starting SF down the line, then a back-up center.

my 2-cents from an ignorant honorary chat b*stard idiot.

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Why do people seem determined to equate height with ability? Undersized does not equal CANNOT excel. I'm not sure Kenny Thomas is the answer at power forward, but I don't know that it has anything to do with his height.

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I'm sorry, but if Jerome Moiso outweighs Rasheed Wallace.....then Scotty Brooks outweighs Stanley Roberts.

ok I guess nba.com, cnnsi.com and espn.com are all wrong. They all list Sheed at 225-230.


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Undersized does not equal CANNOT excel. I'm not sure Kenny Thomas is the answer at power forward, but I don't know that it has anything to do with his height.

An undersized 6-7 PF has the odds firmly stacked against him. He can find a niche but to reach a level to stardom he had better have some unique out of this world ability like Charles Barkley did. Notice the heights of all the elite PFs in basketball, Tim Duncan 7-0, Chris Webber 6-10, Kevin Garnett (if you consider him a PF)6-11 or taller, Rasheed Wallace 6-11, Karl Malone and Antonio McDyess 6-9.

Notice the young stars are long athletic players. There arent any undersized PFs in this elite tier. Players like a 6-7 Danny Fortson or Gary Trent have found a niche as complimentary PFs but are no where near that elite tier.

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I think Jerome Moiso will have a career in the NBA, which is more than most basketball players on this planet can say.

I do NOT think Jerome Moiso will be a stud in the NBA.

Therefore, in Sherlock's scenario, I take Johnson with the number 9 pick. I think Johnson has the raw talent to be one of the top small forwards in the league -- which gives him more upside than Moiso.

It doesn't always work out this way, but the lottery is supposed to be for adding a top player to your roster. I say, roll the freaking dice ...

If Johnson is gone, however, I do take Moiso with the number 9 pick.

Another quick note: MManal's vision of KT guarding Webber, Rasheed, or Duncan in the playoffs does scare me. If only Croshere hadn't blown up in the playoffs for every GM in the league to see. We'll just have to save our dough for CWebb in '01 ...


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I think we're reached a consensus that Moiso is better than KT... but I don't think many people on here believe that Moiso will ever be a superstar... Stevenson could become one, if he develops properly. Face it people, at this stage of Houston's rebuilding, they don't need "one more piece"... I think it's time to take a small risk, and hope for huge future dividends, rather than ending up with a slight upgrade at PF.

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Sherlock:

1.If I felt I needed to upgrade Kenny, which I think we eventually need to do, I'd take Croshere over any power forward I could get at #9. The only better players in this draft are Martin and Swift, and it would cost too much to get to the top 3 spots where they will go. Of course, if I could get a Miles or Miller at #9, and still do a sign and trade for Croshere, then I'd do it, even if it meant losing Cato. I think there is a trade we can do with LAC for Kandi to replace Cato using Drew and KT, if we get Croshere.


Since you are assuming Croshere WANTS to come here and Pacers are forced to sign and trade, why trade our #9 for Croshere when we can get both? Second, Drew does not equal Kandi automatically. Trades aren't as easily done like you make them out to be.

2.He may be more, since he's taller, but not theanswer. I don't believe Moiso is the answer to go up against Malone, Wallace, Webber, McDeyss, and Finley in the West. He may be tall, but he's not stout. He'd get pushed around worse than KT.

Bulk is something you can improve on. Height you cannot. You think KT is better fit to face the tall athletic PFs than Moiso? True that Moiso does not have much bulk and will get pushed around more, but at least he'll be able to contest the shots. They just shoot over KT.

3.There is no doubt that the Rockets continue to spoil me. I hope they don't quit. They have been very good at collecting good players, and trading them for great players like Barkley, Drexler, Pippen, Francis and draft picks over the last few years. I don't see them stopping this approach. It got done back to us by Pippen.

As I stated before, rarely do role players get traded for stars unless force to. True that the Rockets have done several role players for star trades, but that was becuase the star wanted out of that situation. Not becuase the other team wanted to do it, but becuase they were forced to.

Guys who will leave or get the best they can in a sign and trade for their team if its where they want to go. This summer, that will be guys like Croshere, Outlaw, Duncan, Fortson, Robinson, Thomas, Lewis, and perhaps Kandi and J.Oneal.

When did Kandi become a FA this year?

The Rockets will get another great frontcourt guy in FA or trade somehow this summer, even if it means trading our pick. You watch. Next year we will pick another one in the draft, and sign a FA after Dream retires. Our rebuilding is far from done.


This is all speculation. However, I don't doubt this won't happen as the Rockets have been known to do some big moves every year.

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[This message has been edited by rocketsfan34 (edited June 13, 2000).]

 

"ok I guess nba.com, cnnsi.com and espn.com are all wrong. They all list Sheed at 225-230."

Hell yeah they are all wrong. Listings don't mean anything. They list Shaq at 300. They list Olajuwon at 7'0". They list Mourning at 6'10". And so on and so on. Rasheed weighed around 225 his freshmen year in college. He looks like he's gained weight to me. I think he's at least a good 250 lbs. But no way does Jerome Moiso outweigh him. Just look at the two, it should be obvious.

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He looks like he's gained weight to me. I think he's at least a good 250 lbs.

Rasheed Wallace IS NOT 250 pounds. Let's put this into perspective, Brian Grant is rougly 255, Malone is around there also, they look like MUCH wider bodies than Sheed. They are a little shorter but not enough to look THAT MUCH wider than Sheed. Sorry to say but the national sources are a whole lot closer to Sheed's proper weight than you are. They could be off by a little bit but NOT 25 pounds. I have not seen any source, whether its a major source like the ones I listed or an individual source like Patricia's basketball page (the one with all the salary info) list Sheed at anywhere near 250. Wallace's body frame is strikingly similar to Moiso's in many ways.

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[This message has been edited by MManal (edited June 13, 2000).]

 

FYI, McDyess was listed at 220 last time I checked on NBA.com. That seems about right as he doesn't look too beefy compared to the Malones of the league.

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Reports today have Cleveland interested in Tskalidis again with them paying the max 350,000 and Tskalidis paying the rest himself to buyout his contract. May put Johnson back on the board for us.

If we have only Johnson and Moiso to choose from, I say go with Johnson. If only Moiso is left, try and trade down as far as possible so that we can still get him with a lower pick and grab something extra at the same time.

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Yes that is true Oakdogg, nba.com lists him at 220, I got 240 off Patricia Bender's page.

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What do you mean a major source? All of those sites just list whatever the media guide says. It's not like they go out and do the research for this. Malone is no long 250, 260 lbs. He came into the league weighing that much. Malone has gotten a lot bigger since then. He's probably around the 270's to 280's. Barkley probably never played a single game at the listed 250 lbs weight limit. If you chop off Brian Grant's hair, he'll probably be weighing in at 210.

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Malone is no where near 280, he is at around a 6-9 260 wide body. Grant is pretty much the same. Wallace is no where near the wide body they are. You are the first person I have heard that seems to think Malone is 280 pounds and Wallace is 250. Its 260 and 230 respectively.

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Guys, it's ridiculous to argue about weight. I'm 6' and weigh 220 (no I'm not fat) and most people would guess I'm around 185-190. Muscle mass, Bone mass, and Body fat can all effect a persons weight as compared to their size. Two identical looking bodies could easily weigh 20lbs apart. I'm not saying you should always believe what the media shoves down our throats but, realistically it won't be that far off. If it's not that far off then the difference is negligible.

All that being said, Don't draft Moiso. TRADE, TRADE, TRADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yup exactly, Rocketsauce, I am not going to believe that the media is 30 pounds off on every single player. Anyways, this is a pretty lame thing to debate about, I wont say anything more on it.

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Olumide Oyedeji is the answer at the power forward position, not Jerome Moiso. Oyedeji is taller then Moiso, MUCH stronger then Moiso, a way better rebounder then Moiso, a better shot blocker then Moiso, Oyedeji's offensive game could use a little work but scoring isn't really what the rockets need at the power forward position.

 

Olumide Oyedeji is the answer at the power forward position, not Jerome Moiso. Oyedeji is taller then Moiso, MUCH stronger then Moiso, a way better rebounder then Moiso, a better shot blocker then Moiso, Oyedeji's offensive game could use a little work but scoring isn't really what the rockets need at the power forward position.


1. Oyededji is NOT much taller than Moiso. Moiso is extremely long, and is really about 6'11'', while no one is for sure on Oyededji, everywhere from 6'9'' to 6'11''. At best, its a wash. I'd say Moiso is slightly taller.

2. Oyededji's forte is rebounding, he is a lot stronger than Moiso. On the shot blocking-I wouldn't say much better. I think Moiso has a good deal of shot blocking potential, with the long arms, huge leaping ability, and good height. Oyededji won't be among the leaders shot blocking wise, but neither will Moiso. I'd say only a marginal difference between the two, at the very most 1 block per game.

3. "scoring isn't really what the rockets need at the power forward position." Umm....yes it is. We're relying as it is entirely on our backcourt. Moiso has the ability to be a solid defender, and a great scorer. Oyededji will be a defensive force, but he'll be lucky to score double digits. Look at Indiana's trouble-not able to score down low, except for the occasional Smits. The Portland team was able to do things well because Wallace could score from the PF position. Same goes for playing against any dominant big man. You have to be able to score from the center or PF position, and Cato and KT aren't exactly it.

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i really don't consider moiso much of a inside force, the rockets need an inside scorer and oyedeji has a much better shot at being an inside force then moiso. Moiso really plays the exact same way carlos rogers does. moiso will get totally pushed around by the stronger power forwards of the nba. with the exception of garnett, skinny power forwards just dont cut it in the nba no matter how long they are. moiso is will be just another robert horry or carlos roger, never living up to his potential, he has no intensity.

 

Moiso and Rogers are two totally different players in terms of offense. Just b/c their body frame is the same, it does not make them the same player. Moiso has a lot better range on the offensive end than Rogers, a lot better face up game and despite the fact that his post game needs improvement, it still is a lot better than Rogers. Sure Moiso needs another 10-15 pounds in bulk, but he can get that here. The Rockets cannot rely entirely on their backcourt in the playoffs as a high percentage low post option is very important to have. The only championship team in recent history that got away w/o a low post option is the Bulls. That is b/c Michael Jordan averaged 50% for his career FROM THE FIELD. I dont see anyone on this team, even Steve Francis, doing that. 50% is insane for a guard that took as many shots as Jordan did. Thus, the Rockets need an option up front to go along with their perimeter options, and Moiso is a much more logical bet for that than Oyedeji.

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