Nonsense. The Spurs had some kind of bizarre meltdown in game 1 and they should have taken game 4. The league itself came back and said that the refs screwed up on that no-call on Barry. Don't forget that Manu was also playing hurt. That alone should convince anybody that Manu is the real deal--that whole series when he sucked the Spurs lost. Manu plus a decent point guard would be enough. If Manu isn't T-Mac's equal he's pretty close.
I was fully convinced since 2007 that T-Mac/Yao duo won't work even you could have the same quality of role players as Spurs.
A starting 5 spurs roster of Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Oberto, and Bowen vs A starting 5 rockets roster of Yao, Ginobili, Rafer, Scola, and Miller I think the rockets would perform better.
Man, how many Manu vs. Tmac threads do we need? Just post it in Dadakota's thread! Why clutter the GARM with repetitive **** like this? Oh and, t-mac is way better than manu, and it's not even close. T-mac playing injured -> averages a near triple double. Manu playing injured -> can't hit the side of the barn in all but one game in the Lakers series (plus he can't even find other ways to contribute) Give me T-Mac every time. Now, if we could get Ginobili and Calderon, that would benefit the Rockets. I'd be disappointed because T-Mac would be gone, but it would be for the good of the team.
really? I think i'll be generous and say the Duncan/Yao matchup is a wash, Scola is slightly better than Oberto...the last two matchups are the ones that aren't even close to me. Tony Parker is a star PG, the reigning finals MVP and he would completely destroy Rafer. The Bowen/Miller matchup is a wash because Bowen can lock him down while Miller can't play any D. Even if you think that starting 5 would beat the spurs' current one the bench situation isn't even close. They would kill us when their bench came in. So my point remains the same.
In my eyes Ginobili is more efficient, more aggressive, better shooter, more successful, and has more heart (disputable). T-Mac is/was the better scorer, better passer, makes teammates better, and better athlete (in prime). It really depends on who you surround these two player with...that the real difference in their performance as a team. Just look at the stats... Ginobili Career Season Averages Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 02-03 SAS 69 5 20.7 0.438 0.345 0.737 0.7 1.7 2.3 2.0 1.4 0.2 1.45 2.50 7.6 03-04 SAS 77 38 29.4 0.418 0.359 0.802 1.1 3.4 4.5 3.8 1.8 0.2 2.09 2.40 12.8 04-05 SAS 74 74 29.6 0.471 0.376 0.803 1.0 3.4 4.4 3.9 1.6 0.4 2.32 2.60 16.0 05-06 SAS 65 56 27.9 0.462 0.382 0.778 0.6 2.9 3.5 3.6 1.5 0.4 1.86 2.40 15.1 06-07 SAS 75 36 27.5 0.464 0.396 0.860 0.8 3.6 4.4 3.5 1.5 0.4 2.09 2.10 16.5 07-08 SAS 74 23 31.0 0.460 0.401 0.860 0.9 3.9 4.8 4.5 1.5 0.4 2.70 2.30 19.5 Career -- 434 232 27.8 0.454 0.382 0.815 0.9 3.2 4.0 3.6 1.5 0.3 2.10 2.40 14.7 McGrady Career Season Averages Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 97-98 TOR 64 17 18.4 0.450 0.341 0.712 1.6 2.6 4.2 1.5 0.8 0.9 1.03 1.30 7.0 98-99 TOR 49 2 22.6 0.436 0.229 0.726 2.4 3.2 5.7 2.3 1.1 1.4 1.63 1.90 9.3 99-00 TOR 79 34 31.2 0.451 0.277 0.707 2.4 4.0 6.3 3.3 1.1 1.9 2.03 2.50 15.4 00-01 ORL 77 77 40.1 0.457 0.355 0.733 2.5 5.0 7.5 4.6 1.5 1.5 2.57 2.10 26.8 01-02 ORL 76 76 38.3 0.451 0.364 0.748 2.0 5.9 7.9 5.3 1.6 1.0 2.49 1.80 25.6 02-03 ORL 75 74 39.4 0.457 0.386 0.793 1.6 4.9 6.5 5.5 1.6 0.8 2.60 2.10 32.1 03-04 ORL 67 67 39.9 0.417 0.339 0.796 1.4 4.6 6.0 5.5 1.4 0.6 2.67 1.90 28.0 04-05 HOU 78 78 40.8 0.431 0.326 0.774 0.9 5.3 6.2 5.7 1.7 0.7 2.58 2.10 25.7 05-06 HOU 47 47 37.1 0.406 0.312 0.747 1.0 5.6 6.5 4.8 1.3 0.9 2.55 1.90 24.4 06-07 HOU 71 71 35.8 0.431 0.331 0.707 0.8 4.5 5.3 6.5 1.3 0.5 3.00 1.90 24.6 07-08 HOU 66 62 37.0 0.419 0.292 0.684 0.6 4.5 5.1 5.9 1.0 0.4 2.42 1.40 21.6 Career -- 749 605 35.1 0.437 0.337 0.747 1.6 4.6 6.2 4.7 1.3 0.9 2.35 1.90 22.4
It wasn't really supposed to turn out like this... My stance is that if you say Ginobli is better or even "close" to Tmac then we have no chance at a title. I think if we had Ginobli and even another decent starter instead of Tmac we are still not anywhere near as good as the Spurs. If Tmac isn't better than Ginobli than we aren't that good.
Either way. All eyes on Tmac and Yao next season. If they dont make it to at least the finals, I say morey should blow up the team and start putting more superior pieces around yao before its too late.
they prefer to do the trade based on money, not really that manu is better (nobody in the world thinks so, including spurs fans). manu is a good piece of a puzzle if you already have a great team. he can come off the bench and be a great 6th man or a good 3rd option. he makes $10 mil.
SA pg Parker sg Tracy sf Bowen pf Duncan c Oberto Rockets pg Calderon sg Ginobili sf Shane pf Scloa c Yao I still think SA has a better starting 5 so yes that trade made help the Rockets but it also make SA better. So we still wouldn't win anything.
I got it...but it was said that they were "close" and even if they got Manu + $10 mil they would have to get a player comparable to Tony Parker to be at the level of the spurs who didn't win it this year.
manu is def. the spurs' best player. if tmac was on that spurs team, he would share the first option easily with duncan, esp. since duncan isn't taking as many shots.
Wow! That is really scientific. "Its a bit obvious that if that many of us would do the trade most people would." You sound like Hillary trying to convince the world she actually has received more votes and is ahead in the delegate count. Thanks for explaining to people how it is they really meant to vote. BTW playoff effectiveness ratings Tmac 24.0 Star level, Manu 15.29 barely above average. Tmac just turned 29, Manu turning 31 next month and headed down that slippery slope of Bonzi Wellsness.
POST OF THE YEAR! Nice to see someone knowing what they are talking about. Do you know why Yao went down this season? God wanted to punish the ungrateful fans here in houston
I dont care what everyone here says, JVG summed it the best "a career year for Ginobli is a bad year for TMac". End of argument.
When i said that i was referring to everyone. If like 37% of the people on a rockets fan site would do the deal what do you expect it is everywhere else. On the spurs site hardly anyone thought it was a good idea and on the jazz site they also would rather have had manu. Regardless i'm with you i don't think Manu is really close to Tmac. My thread is more for the people who do think Manu or Manu + $10 mil is better than Tmac. To me, if those people are right we CAN'T win it all.
Some players are just winners. If you look at recent stats (like PER and Win Shares), Manu >> TSlack. The guy hustles (unlike TSlack), players hard (unlike TSlack), plays both ends of the court (unlike TSlack), plays well without the ball (unlike TSlack) makes his team much better (debatable with TSlack). His teams have won 3 NBA championships, one Olympic Gold Medal and one Euroleague championship. TSlack is still sniffing around for the second round.
