If lusting after a woman is a sin, why did god make having sex so enticing?

Yes, but isn't adultery pre--marriage (by definition)?

 

I believe that is just premarital sex.

Adultary is sex with a married person, IIRC.

DD

 

I usually try to avoid religion bashing threads, but, as a point of clarification, adultery is extramarital sex.

If you are unmarried, there is no adultery. Thus, no sin.

That quote earlier had to do with marriage.

 

The quote is referencing lusting after another woman other than your wife.

 

Fascinating discussion particularly Twhy's post regarding Catholic doctrine and NFP.

Just weighing in on the faith tradition that I am most familiar with in various sects of Buddhism overindulgence in sex is discouraged and among monks and nuns not allowed. The argument isn't that it is a sin as that concept doesn't exist in Buddhism but that an obsession with the pursuit of pleasure is delusional and leads to suffering. For monks and nuns celibacy also is meant to remove attachment so one can focus on the Dharma.

In general though the philosophy of the Middle Way says that sex can and should be enjoyed in moderation.

 

Although don't a few religions consider any sex outside of a marriage to be a sin?

 

I think its true there is no form of birth control that is a 100% effecitive but things like the pill, vasectomies and tubal ligations are 99% and more effective. As for harm to the body in other ways other than latex allergies, which can be addressed by other means, I'm not aware of any harmful side effects of using condoms.

 

I'm not sure why you're confused.

Desiring your wife = ok.

Desiring someone other than your wife = not ok.

However, if it's something you can't control, then God will forgive you. Case in point, you look up, there's a beautiful woman, and in your head you say "DAYYYYYYUUUUUUUUUM", that's fine. However, if at the point where you should realize that you're doing something wrong, you DON'T turn away, that's when you've taken this desire thing into your own hands.

In all honesty, if you were born incapable of controlling yourself (as you seem to be implying), then God will know that, and he will not catch you out on a technicality. I promise. This is not human law or a game to be won on technicalities. But I assure you, the average human quickly reaches a point where they can make a conscious decision. Also, as with all things, practice makes perfect.

 

Thanks for the clarification re adultery Rashmon and Dadakota.

 

Pill does have side effects, we know this. Vasectomies are a decent option. Condoms are, what, 99%? How many times have condoms broken? How many times has a guy lied to get some? What about using a slightly older one? etc, etc..

This is precisely my point. There are little percentage chances here and there, and I believe Christianity is consistent in its approach - It's not ok to have 1% of cases screwed up. You are responsible for children you bring into this world. 1% of half the population of earth is 30,000,000 "mistakes" btw. Yes, a very raw number, but just trying to give you a very rough indication.

A marriage covenant exists for that 1%. It exists for the possibility that things don't go as planned. If there was a way for two consenting adults to have sex, 0% chance of pregnancy, no harm to self, no harm to society, then I would be on the opposite side of the argument.

But 0.1% is not acceptable to me personally. It is not fair to create that 0.1% to accomodate our unwillingness to take responsibility for the sex we want to have.

Children don't choose their situation. But parents have a say in what situation a child is brought into. That's our responsibility.

 

Technically, adultery is sex with someone when one or more of the two people (or more, I suppose) is married to someone else. If both people are not married it is called fornication. Fornication is a catch all term forthe sex you aren't supposed to be engaging with. The Bible is as clear about sex outside of marriage (two unmarried people) as it is about adultery so you aren't able to just define your way out of the main question.

As to the main question, about lust, I think the problem you may be having is about definitions. Lust is not simply a desire for someone. I honestly don't think I understand men and lust but I'll give it a shot and suggest that there is a wholesome way that you can desire your wife or look forward to consumating your marriage. I would also suspect that you could appreciate a woman's character or beauty without crossing any moral line. If you single and are attracted to a woman that doesn't seem to be a problem.

But lust has a sinister aspect to it that I think you are overlooking when you wonder why God could give you a desire for women and then say that lusting after a woman you aren't married to is a problem. This sinister part is that lust is essentially selfish. It is that mental exercise of fantasizing about what you want to do with someone you ought to be thinking about in a more wholesome manner. If you find a woman hot and I were to suggest you consider marriage how you react betrays a lot about your true feelings for her. If your reaction is, "Wow! Being married to a woman like that would be wonderful!" then probably that doesn't quite fit the profile of lust. If your reaction is more, "What?! No, I just wanted to have sex with her." Well...
What is sinister about it is that what you've really done is objectify her. No matter how little she thinks of herself, no woman (or man) should be treated like that. People are intrisically more valuable than that. Often we'll allow ourselves to be treated rather poorly because we're afraid we're really worthless and unworthy of love.

Technically, you could lust after your own wife and I'm sure it happens. But whatever your emotions might be at that moment, you've made a legal and social committment to stick with her as a supportive spouse for the long term. That long term promise is one that is made and renewed through sex. That is the case with sex outside of marriage as well only the physical promise being made is more often than not a lie.

 

Well I dont agree with your first sentence. We desire women. Then there's procreation. I find it quite miraculous that these two things are connected. In the big picture, if picking someone's nose impregnated them, then sexual desire and procreation would be completely separate. But they are not. That is a miracle to me.

I think you're more interested in the Christian side of things so I'll step back at this point.

My answer to you is that desiring something doesn't mean lusting after it. If you look, want, think, and reject, you did the right thing. I suppose you're asking why there is not some automated system where desire to commit adultery dissapears once you're married. I think we don't know the answer to that. But there is a manual system in place and it requires faith, practice and, most importantly, a deep commitment to your current relationship.

I want to thank you very much btw. You have no idea how, but your post led to me being able to sort something out in my head/life that had been really bothering me for a while. I really dodged a bullet.

 

That is so true. For well over 40 years I've had a variety of friends who happen to be female, friends that I've greatly admired both for, as you put so well, their character and beauty, and for the other things that make up those members of both sexes that we chose to become friends with. It has always bothered me that men frequently can't seem to be friends with the opposite sex, at least not the sort of friends they can be with "the guys." My own experience is that women are, if anything, easier to be friends with than many of the men I have known. I have to say, however, that back in the '60's and early '70's, during the salad days of the hippie era, I had casual sex with some of my girlfriends. If the spirit moved us. Religion was sometimes a topic of conversation, but usually the Eastern ones, the religions we hadn't grown up with. "Free love" wasn't an article in Time Magazine for us. It was something we lived.

 

That is irrelevant to your misunderstanding of your own quote. I'm married and lust after attractive females without any religious belief conflicting my ability to understand that adultery is wrong.

 

Nice. A little change of heart on the old moniker, there?

Borgnine does work in mysterious ways:

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This thread needs more Borgnine. That'll teach these youngsters to go around havin' impure thoughts.

 

Because God is an idiot.

If he created us in his image, I know he is an idiot...