It's not about how many individual assists one can get, it's about how many the team can get. And get it with consistency in both regular season and playoff. 75% Cavs' offense is LeBron P&R and LeBron 1on1, he's certainly gonna get a lot of assists, but he's not gonna win in playoff when the defense is tuned against it. LeBron has the highest usage in the league and he couldn't win **** in playoff, it he's not a ballhog and who is? he wore "check my stats" T-Shirt for a reason.
I agree that FG% doesn't say everything. but it does say something. IMHO Kobe may be a little better 3point shooter (slight edge than Jordan). But Jordan's midge range game was amazing. Better than Kobe's. Of course Kobe is a good shooter. But there have been much better, and Jordan was one of them. But lets not get into this discussion. If Kobe finds a fountain of Youth, and gets more Finals MVP's than Magic (So he still needs 2) and gets a couple of MVP's along the way. Than I might rate him close to Magic. Kobe was second fiddle for most of his career, and since he became the number one guy, he won it all only once. But is he wins a couple of more titles as the main guy, than of course we ca have this discussion. So far I rate him under, Magic, Shaq and Kareem. I haven't seen enough of West and Chamberlain to rate them. of course Kobe is an amazing player. But there have been better, that is not a knock on Kobe, but it is the truth.
I think People dont comprehend Kobe's preformance last year in the playoffs it was legendery .. Even more this year especially against phoenix .. I dont care were he ranks but as much as I hate him he's a great great great player
Srsly, the freaking rings argument is so stupid. Even if Kobe wins 6 rings he still wont be worthy of drinking a gallon of Jordans piss. If rings are the only factor to weigh in who is better, then Robert Horry is better than Kobe AND Jordan.
I agree that Kobe isn't even close to GOAT, however, his passion and love for the game, aswell as his general skill level are helping him make a serious case for the all-time top 5-10...
That's the thing though, it WASN'T legendary. It wasn't even the best performance that we have seen from a guard this decade. Last year Kobe put up 30, 5, 6, 1.7 on 46% and 35%. LA beat a Jazz team without their starting C for half the series, a Rockets team without their SG and missing their C for most of the series, the Nuggets led by Melo and the Magic without their PG. I've gone through champs from the last 2 decades, what their best player did in the postseason and who they beat. How was what Kobe did last year legendary? 2008 (Boston) - KG (20, 10, 3, 1, 1, 50%) - Beat ATL, Cavs with LeBron, Detroit and LA with Kobe. KG was also the backbone for their defense. 2007 (SA) - Duncan (22, 12, 3, 2, 52%) - Beat Den, Pho (arguably their best team), Utah and Cavs. Duncan was also the backbone for their defense. 2006 (Mia) - Wade (28, 6, 6, 2, 1, 50%, 38%) - Beat Chi, NJ, Det and Dallas. He had the best Finals performance this decade. 2005 (SA) - Duncan (24, 12, 3, 1.9, 46%) - Beat Den, Sea, Pho and Det (defending champs). 2004 (Det) - Can't really say they had a primary option. 2003 (SA) - Duncan (25, 15, 5, 3.3, 53%) - Beat Pho, LA (3 time defending champs, Dal, NJ). Duncan had no teammate playing like a star (this is when Manu and TP were pups). 2002 (LA) - Shaq (29, 13, 3, 2.5, 53%) 2001 (LA) - Shaq (30, 15, 3, 2.4, 55%) 2000 (LA) - Shaq (31, 15, 3, 2.4, 56%) 1999 (SA) - Duncan (23, 11, 3, 2.6, 51%) - Beat Min, LA, Por and NY (no Ewing) 1998 (CHI) - MJ (32, 5, 4, 1.5, 46%, 30%) - Beat Stockton & Malone in Finals, and a very good Indy team. 1997 (CHI) - MJ (31, 8, 5, 1.6, 46%, 20%) - Beat Stockton & Malone in Finals. 1996 (CHI) - MJ (30, 5, 4, 1.8, 46%, 40%) - Beat Payton & Kemp in Finals. 1995 (Hou) - Dream (33, 10, 5, 2.8, 1.2) - Beat Stockton & Malone, Barkley & KJ, Robinson and Shaq in Finals. 1994 (Hou) - Dream (29, 11, 4, 4, 1.7) - Beat Stockton & Malone, Barkley & KJ and Ewing in Finals. 1993 (CHI) - MJ (32, 7, 5, 2.3, 48%, 37%) - Beat Barkley & KJ in Finals, and Knicks. 1992 (CHI) - MJ (35, 7, 6, 2.1, 48%, 39%) - Beat Drexler in Finals, and Knicks. 1991 (CHI) - MJ (35, 6, 6, 2, 50%, 39%) - Beat 2 time champs and Magic in Finals. I count 13 better performances than Kobe. I'm curious to hear anyones take on how what Kobe did was more impressive than the 13 examples I bolded. If your performance isn't better than 70% of the recent ones from the last 2 decades, then I'm not going to call it legenday. If anything, average for a star player.
Actually its not about how many assists teams get, its how many points per minute the team gets. If your guy manages to score a 3 pt every possession its ok if he hogs the ball and just shoots it, the objective is to score more points than the opponent not to get the most assists. What has usage rate got to do with it? LOL What do you mean couldn't win ****? He went to the finals already genius. I'd say that was a pretty significant accomplishment given the fact that LBJ has never had a dominant big man playing beside him. Not like Kobe who had Shaq to hold his hand, and then Bynum and Gasol to make life easy for him afterwards. When Kobe didn't have a top big man with what how did the Lakers do? Oh yeah they got smashed by PHX
Ballhog? No. Better word would be ball dominate. I wouldn't be surprised if 75 percent or more of Cleveland's offense isn't created by Lebron. Can he play off the ball? We don't know. Either he chooses not to or the Cav's staff never lets his teammates run any plays. Have to wait until next year to get a answer.
Magic is still the best Laker ever, even if Kobe wins this year, what Magic did for the Laker Franchise goes beyond just winning rings. On another note, I know this is a Kobe thread, but no one has mentioned that Shaq hasn't won a championship without a dominant SG. He won 3 with Kobe and 1 with Wade, and Wade was the MVP of the Finals. So, if you're gonna knock Kobe for never winning without a big man, you have to knock Shaq for never winning without a superstar SG.
I'm not hating. Kobe is a great player. But since you think my post was hating, I'm very curious to hear how his performance was better than the 13 (of 18) that I highlighted from the past two decades? How was it better than Wades'? Legendary and normal are not synonoms.
This is true, although I wouldn't exactly call Kobe a superstar in 2000. Additionally, things were still going through him for 3 of those rings. No one is knocking Kobe for not winning without help, because evryone needs help. But don't say he has 5 rings as if he led his team to 5 rings. It looks like he is about to lead his team to a 2nd one, which also puts him in rare category.
to be accurate, you need to add another qualifier, a Hall of Fame Coach who had previously won > 2 rings. With the Orlando Magic, Shaq teamed w Penny Hardaway, the Kobe of the mid 1990s but could not win a ring. likwise, in his first 3 seaons with Kobe, the Lakers could never reach the WC Final. the missing ingredient was a a Hall of Fame Coach who had previously won > 2 rings. With all the ingredients on hand, Shaq's team won in LA and Miami.
Well it was legendery, but certainly not Legendary. What Kobe did last year wasn't that memorable at all. It's not like Isiah thomas vs the Lakers playing with one ankle, it wasn't Magic Johnson's skyhook to beat the Celtics, it wasn't Jordan going crazy against the Blazers, it wasn't Hakeem vs David Robinson Great player, probably the best player today, but last year's performance? I don't really remember dude. I think this year's performance is better than last years plus I think Kobe vs the Pacers was more memorable.
Magic Johnson had a pretty high usage rate... Lebron makes good plays every single tme he touches the ball. Sausage rate has no impact on the discussion. The efficiency of the touches is what matters. Kobe does not generate the Lakers assist totals, Phil Jackson has a much larger impact in that...
its called own's individual choice. its close but I still put the Big Fundamental before 'Jelly'Bean Bryant as THE BEST OF THIS DECADE 24 hours a day and all week in terms of what he brought overall to those teams
They play a different offense. The triangle is meant to give Kobe the ball every single to for him to either make plays to score or to get other people going with playmaking ability. LeBron is a better playmaker though, that's for damn sure.
