If Kobe gets his ring this year, how is he not the GREATEST?

Wow, pretty touchy. Even Kobe himself admitted he was a rapist:

" "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did” (see legalese).

Also, lying to the cops and snitching on your teammates in an attempt to get out of charges didn't exactly help his credibility. Nor did paying off the girl to go away. I think there's a strong possibility he raped the girl and just because he got away with it doesn't make him innocent (many of us consider OJ a murderer, no?)

 

You're taking the words from a few posters and applying them to everyone. Out of all the posters in this thread, what percentage have called him a rapist?

Try and debate? Regardless of our motives, there are several posters in the thread who have argued you into submission. At this point, you tend to start name-calling or accusing people of bias.

Once again, how many people how many people have said that Gasol is the Lakers' best player?

And even if people have a personal vendetta against Kobe, how does that impact their arguments if they're based on logic and statistics?

And also, whether or not he's the "player of the decade" doesn't automatically mean he's the best on the team. For instance, if the Lakers traded Gasol for Lebron, Kobe would still be "player of the decade", but would not be the best player on the team.

 

This is your thread, genius. The onus is on you to back up your ridiculous claim.

 

Different eras? In Kobe's prime, Jordan was playing for the Wizards and averaging 20 ppg as a 40 year old man.

It's safe to say this era is easier than when Jordan was in his prime.

 

The question has been answered many times over. Putting it simply: Jordan was more valuable to his championship teams than Kobe was. Hence 6 Finals MVPs, 4 MVPs. Kobe is good, but he had more help to get to 4 (maybe 5) than Jordan had to get to 6. Jordan was asked to do more. The defense had to pay more attention to him because he was the major focal point.

I don't know why you think that him being part of two different championship cores make his career more special than Jordan's. That's more a testament to Phil Jackson and the Lakers front-office that they could rebuild the team and have a different group of players succeed so well. I don't think Kobe was the one building the team.

But give Kobe credit for what he did as a player in those championship runs. That's probably enough to land him among the top handful of players to ever play the game. But its not enough for his individual accomplishments to surpass Jordan's.

 

Yinka Dare > Kobe Bryant

 

Do you seriously not get this? It's akin to asking "How is the sky not green?"

You really are twelve, aren't you?

 

Not when it comes to raping women.

 

And I still love how you have not responded to the following:


* 6 Championship ....
* 5 Regular Season MVP's ....
* 6 Final's MVP's ....
* 10 Scoring Titles ....
* 10 All-NBA 1st Team ....
* 9 All-Defensive 1st Team ....
* 3 Time Steals leader ....
* Defensive player of the year in 1987-88

 

LOL...and you are not a fanboi of his at all. As you would do.... " "

 

Do not bring up the fact that Jordan and Bryant played in different eras if you're trying to convince people that Bryant is the GOAT. Jordan played in the GOLDEN AGE of basketball. He went up against Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Larry Johnson, Vernon Maxwell, John Starks, Kevin Johnson, Derek Harper, etc. on a regular basis. Who the hell does Kobe have to go against? Defense has fallen by the wayside ever since Stern's hand-check rule, and it's completely benefitted Kobe. If Jordan had played in today's era, he would have averaged 35 ppg. And you keep saying you ignore the stats because Pippen played with Jordan.....JORDAN FREAKING MADE PIPPEN. Pippen was a HACK after he left Chicago, and he was exposed. And you can't ignore the stats when they are SO lopsided in Jordan's favor. This isn't even a debate anymore.....you're just being a stubborn mule who refuses to concede that your original premise was garbage to begin with.

 

Teams Jordan beat in the Finals:

Magic and the Lakers
Clyde and the Blazers
Barkley and the Suns
Malone/Stockton and the Jazz
Malone/Stockton and the Jazz
Kemp/Payton and the Sonics

Teams Shaq.....I mean Kobe all by himself beat in the Finals:

Kidd and the awesomeness that was New Jersey Nets
Iverson and the all mighty 76'ers
Pacers (who the hell was even on that team?)
and a good Magic team

Close call there.

 

0 chance of Kobe moving into the immortal 6 because his peak was so far and away below all of theirs. At no point during his career was he considered far and away the best player in the league like them.

Regardless of what happens, Kobe climaxes as a top 7-12 player IMO.

 

Jordan bested Magic Johnson in the 1991 Finals, essentially playing PG for his team. He averaged 31.2 ppg and 11.4 apg in that series. So, no, I don't think Kobe was a better "point guard".

What am I saying by focal point? Which player on the Lakers do you think defenses had to pay most attention to in 2000, 2001, and 2002? The answer is not Kobe. On those teams, which player did the offense run through primarily? The answer is not Kobe. For all of those championship Bulls teams, the answer was Jordan for both questions.

What is the challenge in winning with a different core of players? The main challenge there is in the actual rebuilding process, which is a management/coaching responsibility. So I'd give the lion-share of the credit to them. You could give Kobe credit for having the longevity/durability to be a star player at the beginning of the decade and at the end of the decade. Though you shouldn't discard that his role on the initial teams was more as a facilitator rather than the main guy.

Look, you can pick a lot of players and point out something unique about their career arch that sets them apart from the rest. I could do the same thing with Hakeem Olajuwon. We had a young, championship-caliber core ripped from him early in his career and the Rockets had to start over. He was MVP, DPOY, and Finals MVP all in the same year in 1994 -- who else ever did that? And in 1995, he led his team to a championship without home-court advantage in any round and defeating the top 4 teams by regular season record. Again, never done before or since.

To me, the GOAT discussion has to be centered on how good the player was and how long he maintained that excellence. Jordan was simply a better player through most of his career than Kobe was at his very peak. The guy dominated the league for several years. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh or dismissive of Kobe's accomplishments. Kobe's came into his own as one of legends of the game since Shaq departed, and I'm not trying to take away from that. And, yeah, there are some individual skill things that Kobe maybe has an edge on. But when you look at the total package, Jordan was just at a different level.

This is what I'd suggest. Let's just wait and see what happens the rest of the way. If Kobe wins it all, there may be some people out there trying to argue what his place in history is. Let's see what the conversation is like then.