If Kobe gets his ring this year, how is he not the GREATEST?

IN 07/08 before coming to the Lakers 50% FG shooting for Gasol

after coming to Lakers 59%. FG

 

Nice selective use of statistics

He shot 54% in 2006-07 (his last full year with the Grizzlies), and shot 54% this year.

 

The Bulls were nothing before Jordan got there.

 

pau gasol has been the lakers' most consistent player so far in the playoffs. kobe was subpar in the first round and the lakers were still able to pull it out .

i never said kobe isn't the main guy on the lakers b/c he is. i'm talking about main guy without another all-star. when kobe was that, he didn't do anything.

FYI: you can ask many laker fans, they will say pau is the team's MVP throughout the first 2 rounds.

 

no, we will say kobe is the mvp

 

Sure, he's the main guy.

Though through the first two rounds of the playoffs, with Phil Jackson wanting the Lakers to emphasize their strength in the post more against smaller competition, Gasol's production has been at least as impressive as Kobe's :

Gasol: 20.3 ppg, 13.1 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.9 bpg, 2.2 tpg, on 56% shooting, 27 PER

Kobe: 26.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 4.9 apg, 3.7 tpg, on 46% shooting, 20 PER

This season, Kobe had a 21 PER in the regular season and has a 20 PER so far in the playoffs. Stats aren't everything, but where does this fall compared to Jordan in his championship runs?

Jordan had
1991: 32 PER in regular season, 32 PER in playoffs
1992: 28 PER in regular season, 27 PER in playoffs
1993: 30 PER in regular season, 30 PER in playoffs
1996: 29 PER in regular season, 27 PER in playoffs
1997: 28 PER in regular season, 27 PER in playoffs
1998: 25 PER in regular season, 28 PER in playoffs

Or what about Wade in 2006?
2006: 28 PER in regular season, 27 PER in playoffs

Or how about "LeHype" the last two years?
2009: 32 PER in regular season, 37 PER in playoffs
2010: 31 PER in regular season, 29 PER in playoffs

You basically want people to look at Kobe Bryant this season and declare him as the GOAT when his statistical production this year pales in comparison to the 3 other best wings of the last 20 years. Its not even enough for us to say he's better than LeBron and Wade have been -- according to you and goodbug that should be OBVIOUS. No, he's even better than Jordan, who's accomplished everything and more that Kobe accomplished and put up far better numbers while doing so.

When the stats are so overwhelmingly in another player's favor, your argument has to be stronger than "Kobe can do everything Jordan can do" (a claim that doesn't actually mean anything when you really think about it) or "Jordan always had Pippen, but Kobe won with Shaq the first time and with Gasol the second time so he's better."

 

1) Jordan's team was terrible when he was drafted (that's how the Bulls got the #3 pick) and didn't improve until many years in. It's not like Pippen was superstar the moment he was drafted. Also, comparing Pippen to Shaq is a joke. Jordan's situation is much more like Lebron's, where he was drafted onto a crappy team and toiled in mediocrity for a few years. At about Lebron's age, Jordan started winning titles. We'll see if it happens for Lebron (I think it will).

2) Magic & Bird played in a league that had less teams and much more player retention. Bird was always, from day #1, the defacto star of the Celtics and Magic was the consensus top dog on the Lakers by the mid-80s (and certainly during the later title runs). They both won multiple MVPs on account of not only being the best on their teams but the best in the league.

Kobe has never been the best player in the league (even the year he won it was more like a lifetime achievement award, like AI's). You can't be the running for GOAT (the topic of this thread) if you are never even the best in the NBA. Kobe's main accomplishment has been amazing longevity and being able to play second fiddle so well in title runs. Hey, you need a second fiddle to win titles.

 

Repped. Very nice.

 

According to Hollinger's precious PER rankings


I'll be honest I don't know how the F that PER created by Hollinger works but by his PER rankings

Chris Bosh > Dwight
Greg Oden > Ginobilli
Dirk > Nash
Zach Randolph > Deron Williams (23rd in his precious PER rankings... are you serious? the best PG in the game is 23rd?)
David Lee > Chauncey Billups

I can go on and on and on

Watch the games people and see it for yourself

 

Perhaps if you read my post, you would have noticed the last paragraph:

When the stats are so overwhelmingly in another player's favor, your argument has to be stronger than "Kobe can do everything Jordan can do" (a claim that doesn't actually mean anything when you really think about it) or "Jordan always had Pippen, but Kobe won with Shaq the first time and with Gasol the second time so he's better.​

It is easy to put forward good arguments for why Dwight > Bosh or Ginobili > Oden, etc. despite what PER may suggest.

The same can't be said for Kobe and Jordan.

 

LOL ...

 

Kobe’s career high in Offensive Win Shares has been surpassed by Jordan 9 times

Kobe’s career high in Defensive win shares has been surpassed by Jordan 9 times

Kobe’s career high in Win Shares has been surpassed by Jordan 10 times

 

PER is a joke. The guy named Hollinger uses PER to predict team success. And look how bad he's been doing prediction in every playoff.

He predicted Lakers would be champion in 08 and Cavs these 2 seasons. He's getting to a bigger clown than Chuck now.

 

Show quantifiable PROOF Kobe is better than Jordan in any aspect of the game.

Back it up with something, anything. Moron.

 

Yep. And, again, its not just the statistical arguments in Jordan's favor. Most of us can agree that stats don't tell the whole story. But the stats are so overwhelming on one side, and there's no argument even remotely as compelling on the other side. That's the challenge for "Kobe is the GOAT" advocates.

I'm always willing to listen to the arguments, though. Its fun.

 

But there hasn't been a single argument* though, how is it fun?

*Unless "HE JUST IS!!!!" is considered an argument these days