If he wins a SB this year, is Brady the best QB ever.

Just one. Brady took over in the 2nd game of his sophomore year and became the starter for the 3rd game of that season.

 

Not even the best quarterback of his era....

 

That is a product of having a top all-time caliber (even though I hate him, it pains me to type this, and I think he's a cheater) coach his whole career, not specifically because of Brady.

 

Was Belichick considered an all-time caliber coach before Brady started winning Super Bowls for him?

Not even close. He had one winning season in his six full seasons before Brady became his starting quarterback.

Having said that, I don't think you can put too much weight on the Super Bowls simply because Brady played with a top defense just about every year of his career and Manning has never really had that opportunity.

 

I must have missed something. When was it proven that the Patriots cheated in the Superbowl, or even during their Superbowl seasons? I remember they were caught filming the opposing sideline during a regular season game in a year they didn't win the Superbowl.

Also, didn't Barry Bonds admit to unknowingly using illegal performance enhancing drugs? That's cheating, even if you believe he was unaware.

 

Best QB ever? That would be a difficult choice, and you will never get everyone to agree. What would be interesting, is to see what players would be picked by each team if they could go back in history and select any QB who has ever played. I would want a QB that could run, that had a strong arm, could throw with accuracy, and was a leader. I would pick John Elway, he just semed to have it all, and he ended his career with two Super Bowl wins.

 

he's in the argument. but like other's have mentioned, he is/was also blessed to be on a great team.

Matt Cassel (albeit a quality QB) did very well with the pats while Brady was out. I don't mean to discredit Brady in anyway because he is a heck of a football player, however he is in a fantastic system with great coaching and managin.

Where Manning gets the edge is how much his team relies on him from a management and play calling perspective. WHat the colts are doing this year with all the injuries is pretty impressive and it's all because of Manning is that good.

 

In the Manning-Brady tiebreaker... My vote goes to Manning simply because he has achieved great success throughout three coaching regimes.... while Brady has yet to prove he can do it without the video tape artist.

 

If you want to just do a skills checklist of the top QBs in history, Elway is a great choice. But when it came to actual performance (regular and post-season), Montana blows him away. Not even close IMO. Elway indeed "had it all", but he barely deserves mention with Montana and Brady. Montana got so locked in, so many times (especially in the playoffs), it was amazing. He was like a machine.

 

similar to the marino/montana discussion, frankly.

between peyton or tom, i'd take tom if were picking a QB for my team.

 

Beyond skills checklist here's the way I look at it:

John Elway took teams to the Super Bowl that had no business being there. Teams with few Pro Bowlers. He took teams with average receivers and Sammy Winder at RB to the Super Bowl....and those defenses weren't all time great.

Trade places...put Montana on those Broncos teams and do you think he takes that group to the Super Bowl. I'd say it's possible.

Put Elway on those 49er teams...let him play with Rice and Craig...and that defense...think they win any less than they did? I can't imagine it. If anything, i think they'd be more potent.

John Elway is, in my mind, the greatest QB to ever play the game. I've never seen a guy in that league do more with less around him.

 

Something else to think about:

Patriots without Brady and starting essentially a Rookie QB... 10-6

Colts without Manning... .500 would be an accomplishment.

And the Patriots rely on the pass a lot more than the Colts do, that should tell you who is more important to their team that such a pass reliant team can post that record without Brady, while the balanced Colts can barely pull .500 without their signal caller.

 

I hear ya, and I don't disagree. Truthfully, I don't think there's a wrong answer here.

But I look at all the skill position players that Brady has played with and, aside from Moss, the list is pretty unimpressive. A bunch of guys who haven't come close to matching their production with the Pats. I don't know if that's all on the system and the coach or if some of it is because Brady is so good.

If Peyton finishes with only one ring, that's going to hurt his legacy, ultimately.

 

Brady is married to Gisele...that pretty much trumps all

 

Brady, the prototypical system player.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Elway wasn't great. That would be crazy. But Montana was on another stratosphere when he locked in. And he did it so often. In the playoffs.

The playoff aspect clearly separates him from Peyton Manning. Of the all-time greats under discussion here, seems like Manning's performance degrades the most when circumstance go south, like when facing heavy pressure and getting knocked around a few times.

 

...he could do way better.

 

If there is 2 minutes on the clock. I needed to get a TD . .or even in Field goal range.

I'd take Brady over Manning.

I always remember . . . when The Steelers were about to go for the WINNING TD
The Lackluster Colts Defense not only made a goal line stand
They got a Fumble . . . but ran the ball back past the 40

The Great Manning could not move the ball 25 yrds to make the Field Goal
a chip shot . . instead it was a long long field goal.

Then there is the interception against the saints.

I like Manning but . . . . ugh

Rocket River

 

Big Ben with the game saving tackle after The Bus fumbled....

then mike vanderjagt blows the kicks.

...that was a helluva game.