If china attacks Taiwan, what do you think America will do ?

What? Taiwan has some of the largest cash reserves in the world. They've invested in the PRC, but that hardly makes them dependent on the PRC. They functioned extremely well before that investment, and could do so again without it. Besides, the heavy investment in the PRC disproves the original argument that Taiwan is dominated by Japanese loving Chinese hating residents of Taiwan. In addition, continued Taiwanese investment in the PRC is certainly important to the PRC economy. The PRC could, I guess, confiscate this investment. But it is reasonable to assume this would have devestating consequences on the PRCs economy, not just from the loss of future Taiwanese investment, but from the chilling effect it would have on other investment from other places.

Cute way to avoid the conflict. One of the reasons cited for why Taiwan is part of the PRC is that the occupants are transplanted mainlanders. I responded that many of them are not, were not born on the mainland, do not feel they are 'part of the PRC,' do not want to be part of the PRC. Who's going in circles? Its not that I think this is an easy question. Its not. Its one of the reason's US policy has always been 'one country - two systems,' and the reason we've always moved against forceful reunification. Both sides have legitimate arguments. China historically, more than the PRC specifically, has legitimate arguments that Taiwan is part of China. At the same time I am sympathetic to a whole lotta people in Taiwan who are NOT from the mainland, and don't want to be part of the PRC. Why would they want to go backwards, both economically and politically? It would be far better if the PRC ceded political control back to those in Taiwan. That would again unify the two, which you claim is your main objective based on things like 'ancestral heritage,' but I doubt you would agree to that solution.

mleahy999: Surely you can understand the security implications of having direct flights and shipping to and from the mainland? Your position is that it was reasonable 25 years ago but not now. Yet the PLA has not taken any less aggressive posture now than before. In fact, they are modernizing specifically to take Taiwan by force, both by acquiring new naval assets (shipping) and new air assets (flights). See the problem?

 

I would agree with that, except that I was responding to the whether China 'owns' Taiwan or Taiwan 'owns' China, as were you in your previous post when you mentioned the 1.3 billion vs 20 million.

It is irrelevant to me that China has the billion. What is relevant is which is Democratic and Free.

It is about the inevtable evolution to a superior system. Taiwan is there. When China gets there, we could possibly see it merge with Taiwan ( ), but its unlikely to occur sooner.

 

Taiwan is the Republic of China and China is the People's Republic of China. They are both Chinese, but different governments. Taiwan agrees that it is a part of China. It is a still ongoing reminant of the civil war.

 

The nationalists lost the Civil War the last time I checked...so I don't think China belongs to Taiwan.

 

Actually,

No country belongs to another.

If Taiwan wants to be free, so be it.

Really, everyone should bow down the mighty USA anyway.



SHEESH !!

DD

 

First of all, you have a bad attitude about not trying to help people understand. If I took that attitude I wouldn't know what I know about China today. With your attitude you would rather promote ignorance than understanding. You need America to understand China and Taiwan so nothing stupid happens between the 2 cultures based on not knowing what the other culture is thinking. I am an American and I have come to understand China very well in the little time I have spent studying it. You need to understand us like we need to understand you. You need to open your mind up.

Second...British are generally looked at as more respectable and classier than Americans here in America...just so you know. Probably, a better word would be snooty, but overall British are viewed positively and as more cultured that us Americans. Just watch how most British are portrayed in most movies. Anyhow...that really isn't very important.

 

Oh we understand the history very well.

China can repeat the story as often as it wishes, but Taiwan has never been much of a part of China. It has been in and out of foreign control for the past 300 years. Anyone remember when it was called by its Dutch name, Formosa?

Taiwan is a free nation and the last thing it wants to do is be a part of China. Taiwan is about 50 years ahead of China in industry, manufacturing, culture, and economics. It is more western than Chinese.

I loved that part about 1.3 billion v. the 20 million. The 20 million matter more because it's THEIR home, not yours.

but if a war is what you want, go ahead, because Taiwan and US will oblige, and their militaries are far superior to the 1975 war ready troops of China.

we are thinking about knocking off Lil Kim and fixing THAT problem, so China better be thinking about not losing any territory instead of gaining territory.

 

That's the point everyone is missing....Taiwan is not an independent country. Taiwan is apart of China.

 

25 years ago, it was a different ball game. Taiwan still wanted to reclaim the mainland and Mongolia back then. It's not the case anymore. Today, it's all about making money on both sides. Now there's gotta be close to a million transplanted Taiwanese businessmen and their families living on the mainland. I don't see how it would be a security risk to allow them to fly home without tripling their flight time. Are you worried that the Chinese will send a squadron of fighters sneaking behind a passenger airliner to blindside the island? Or a battle ship pretending to be a cargo ship? That is so Al Queda. If there is a war, I don't think the Chinese will throw a sucker punch. I think the Chinese will fight mano-e-mano like in the past. Plus, I'm pretty sure Taiwan's advanced armed forces can punch back.

 

Just quoting you to respond to your question...

I don't think China will attack Taiwan. I think that is a very very slim possibility because both sides are not stupid enough to push each other to war. It would have already happened if it was going to, don't you think? There have been many times when war could have broken out but each side chose peace and moderation instead of fighting. While both sides talk tough neither wants war or will goto war.

I think America will do everything it can to ensure China does not bully around Taiwan, and will try to make sure Taiwan is peacefully assimilated back to China. I know arms shipments look like we want to arm the Taiwanese for war, but I think they are to make sure that the Taiwanese can show the Chinese that they won't be pushed around and China can't forcefully take over Taiwan without killing many many people.

Also, the other thing that is overlooked is China would be very very very weary of attacking fellow Chinese.

 

I've lived there.

I know Taiwan and just about everything a Western can know about. I've lived among its people. I know that they want indepedence and that they see themselves as Taiwanese, not Chinese.

It is NOT a remnant of a civil war. That's the CHINESE line, not the TAIWANESE line. Taiwan has been abused by the Chinese its entire history, and just because the last 2 million of Chiang and the Kuomingtang took over in 1949 doesn't make it Chinese.

It's TAIWAN, a country, and the sooner you get used to that, like the sooner the arabs get used to ISRAEL being a country, the sooner we all get along better. Forget TAIWAN unless you are prepared to fight to the death for it.

 

I know the Chinese (panda) claim Taiwan is part of China, but how true is that?

Does China have police/military authority in Taiwan?

Does China have political control over Taiwan?

From my understanding, China has none of these things, all they have is rethoric.

So again, how exactly is Taiwan a part of China?

Don't people from Taiwan have a Taiwan passport, not a China passport?

 

that is your OPINION

it is not REALITY

REALITY is that TAIWAN is an independent country and has been for 50 years.

you need to wake up and smell the coffee, cuz only Chinese and their supporters will look at Taiwan and see a Chinese province.

tell me, do you look at Israel and see Palestine? This is gonna make that look like a paint ball tournament.

 

Thanks for the info...good to hear from someone who has personal experience. Guess I had mainly been getting the Chinese line from the couple of classes I took.

Not disputing you, but I thought most Taiwanese did not want independence. Maybe I am just remembering my surveys wrong.

 

If Taiwan is independent then how come it doesn't declare itself independent? How come it is still working with reintegrating back to China? Also, if it does peacefully go back to China with the native Taiwanese rebel and try to form their own nation?

 

The US has as legitimate a claim to Cuba as China has a legitimate claim to Taiwan. And it's more likely that Cuba becomes under US ownership than that Taiwan will ever return to Chinese control.

If you are Taiwan, what possible reason would you want to tie your robust, modern, advanced culture for the old commies who can't even let a meditation group exist? If you want to address China's problems, start with the 1.3 billion on the mainland who live in abject poverty, and let this 20 million alone. You should be copying the Taiwanese, learning from them, not scheming to get control of them. That is the irony of your position. China has nothing to offer Taiwan, nada, except as a trade partner.

 

Who are these Taiwanese that you speak of? What age group? All the Taiwanese I know and my wife's relatives don't want anything to do with the Communist gov't, but do not abandon their Chinese heritage. Taiwanese are Chinese. They all came from the mainland 500 years ago or 50 years ago. The only true Taiwanese are the mountain people and they are now tourist attractions and sideshows.

 

I'll be happy to read any legit source on the issues.


I'm tied to the free Taiwan position and have been for 3 decades. I occasionally attend one of their functions here in Houston. I'm biased, but my bias is based upon my sincere belief that most of the citizens do not want mainland oversight in any fashion. It would be like finding out your new college dean of housing was John Ashcroft. No more Par-tay.

There is a huge culture shift from Taiwan to the mainland.

US business is heavily invested in both, although the investment in Taiwan is decades longer. The last ten have been very active for American investment in China. I love this because once you get in bed, it's harder to have a war.

In my business, I deal with problems all over the world - usually long distance now, meaning I don't travel much any more. But I deal with problems that crop up in places like Russia, Romania, Norway, Canada, Indonesia, Taiwan, China, Australia, New Zealand, Venezuela, UK, and on and on. Problems with government officials, problems with shipping issues, problems getting paid, problems getting people or cash into or out of the countries. These are all legit, American industrial and manufacturing interests I am representing.

China is the hardest, the most backward in terms of understanding and accepting the kind of rules of civil litigation and business dispute resolution that are prevalent in the rest of the world. No agreement is ever honored in full. The power structure includes military with government positions who extort funds because they can.

I say this in all sincerity:

the best thing China can do is forget Taiwan, and focus on joining the world community on business morals. Economics is the salvation of China. Only by adopting western style economics, only by accepting the duty to deal fairly, will China get more respect in the world community. Everyone does business with China, but everyone also b!tches about dealing with the constant re-trading of deals. Then when you call their hand on it, they want you to make sure you don't cause them to lose face because you pointed out their double dealing ways.

Seriously, China needs to join the party. We are not in need of going back in time - China is in need of catching up.

 

Mostly because they are independent in all but name as it stands right now and there is no reason to challenge the country with the biggest standing army (tecnological ineptitude notwithstanding) in the entire world. China COULD take Taiwan by force, but neither side wants the Taiwan Strait to be filled with that much blood.

It is a war of rhetoric, not much else. Some Taiwanese talk about reintegration and others talk about independance. Just depends on who you talk to.

 

Best line of this whole thread.

Never been to either country (I plan on it someday), but I can tell you from personal experience (limited to 3 friends of mine who were born in Taiwan & now live in the States) that if you really, really want to make them angry, call them Chinese. "I'M TAIWANESE DAMNIT!!!!"