If Bagwell is healthy, who sits - Taveras or Lane?

Sit Lane 'till he realizes this is the big leagues and you have to have some patience at the plate...

 

If that's your criteria, then you have to sit Taveras. He had 7 less walks in 70+ more plate appearances. Taveras also struck out over 100 times. Taveras' job is to get on base, Lane's is to drive folks in.

Taveras averaged 3.52 pitches per plate appearance, Lane 3.63.

 

Trade them both for contrares

 

Pretty clueless, man.

"Hi, I'm Mike Piazza. You may remember me from such career highlights as 'best hitting catcher in the history of baseball' and 'eventual Hall-of-Famer.' I'd like to try and play for somebody this year, and I'm not even injured like Jeff Bagwell...

Oh, what's that? My bat's slowed down and I can't field my position anymore? You have younger players on your team who hit better than I do now?

Ah, okay. You're right, they're probably better. I'm sorry. Forget about it. I guess that's why I don't have a job six weeks before spring training."

If you're not calling for Piazza to be our catcher, why would you want Bagwell at 1st? Times change and players fall off. What's the history of players Jeff's age coming back on one shoulder? How did he look in the playoffs last year? Do you really think the team would've signed Wilson if they thought the Bagwell could come back and produce? Open your eyes, fanboy.

If you had any objectivity at all, you would smash yourself. You might even make solid contact, unlike Bags.

 

The fact that we had Taveras sitting in the freaking NLCS last year, and had Burke in there playing CF for one of the first times all year, should give you an idication of where Taveras is on the pecking order... he has his deficiencies, and the club knows he still needs improvement.

If he doesn't learn how to get on base, draw some walks, and do something consistently other than just getting infield hits (which went down as the season went along, simply because the league figured out more how/where to play him on the infield).... he's not going to be an everyday player much longer.

He's still young, he's still never played at AAA, and he's still learning basic fundamentals on both sides of the game (offense and defense)... I think this team can afford to be patient with him, rather than have to rely on him to be this team's leadoff hitter no matter what.

Lane still gives you plenty of power, and if you take out one abysmal month, his batting average, RBI's, and OBP is perfectly suited for the 6th hole of this lineup (or any lineup). I don't think they can afford, power wise, to not have his bat in there consistently.

 

You've missed the argument. It's not, "put Bagwell at 1st, he's a HOF!!!!!" It's, "let's see if the HOF still has it after rehab." Especially since we're paying him 17Mill, eh?

 

Nobody will know if he can come back until ST. Bagwell doesn't know. Dr. Andrews doesn't know. Purpurra doesn't know. Sure as hell nobody on this board knows.

If he can hit with doubles power and still draw walks at a good clip (the Stros on-base skills last year, in all spots not occupied by Berkman/MoBerg, were collectively pathetic), he can help this team. Watching him at the end of the season (earlier than most anybody thought he'd be back), he can still do those things, what nobody knows is how the shoulder will respond to repeated throwing.

He'll get every chance to play, if he can.

 

Precisely. Which is why the "dump Bagwell now" posts are just as stupid as anyone who predicts .295/40/100.

 

Um, he already rehabbed and came back for the playoffs - and we all saw how well that worked out. He admitted that he couldn't throw at that point, but he thought he was well enough to hit - though he clearly wasn't. After going through that, it seems to me that he doesn't know when to quit, which isn't all that unusual among pro athletes (see Hakeem). His problem is that he can't be objective about his own abilities, which is a hard thing to do for anyone. But what's your excuse for a lack of objectivity?

If you were the coach or the GM, how much rope would you give Bagwell? Bad enough you let him go out there and flail around in the World Series. How many games will he cost you this year? Will you allow him to impede the development of Jason Lane?

The tough thing, but the right thing, is to make Bagwell earn his playing time this spring training. None of this "I've always started slow" bull#$%*. His spring numbers need to be better than Jason Lane's if he's going to be on the roster this year. Oh, and he has to be able to throw a ball from 1st to home. If he can do both of those things, I say "Welcome back Jeff". But the odds are very much against it. And if he's getting starts when he can't perform up to the standards of an average ML 1st baseman (at the very least), then he's hurting the team whenever he goes out there. Even his ability to pinch hit will fall off once pitchers realize that he's crippled.

Sorry, but we've seen too many playoff races go down to the wire. I don't cut Bagwell any slack from day one of spring training. I go in with the mentality that he's not on this club and he has to prove he deserves otherwise. Signing Wilson is an indication that the Astros agree with me. It may seem harsh for a local legend, but if he's willing to go out there and hurt the team, as in the World Series where he was clearly not ready, then he doesn't deserve legend status. Part of being a leader is knowing what's best for everyone and when to step aside.

 

Anyone see this story?

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/...t_id=1290960&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

It seems that the team isn't going to let Bagwell tell them how healthy he is. Objectivity is what's needed right now.

 

Well,

...I should probably qualify that as an exaggeration. If he can't go .265/.315/85 or can't throw, then it's time to hang them up or play from the bench. But we just don't know that yet.

You know, I agree entirely with this. And with this:

My point is simply, "let's find out in spring training."

 

jeff bagwell is one of my ALL TIME favorite players, but he just isn't as good as either willy or jason anymore. he has to sit in this scenario.

 

I think he should get the chance to prove himself.

 

Please direct your ire towards those who have already come to a conclusion about whether Bagwell can or cannot still play at a high level. I have not.

 

You just don't know that for sure. Why not let things ride until ST and decide then?

 

I think us signing Wilson is a good indicator of what the Astros think of Bags chances are to come back.

I think that had a lot to do with Burke's "hot streak" so to speak....he had come up big a couple of times up to then.