the problem is how a person judges is reliant on where it's coming from. and with some of these takes we've seen around here throwing this guy in a box and some of the most ridiculous claims, it isn't exactly the best place. one way I look at it, When you rebuild and draft a player, what do you go off of? What he did prior coming into the league correct and his attributes etc? Well that's not really the case here. we got a actual look at a 19 year kid for a year in the best league in the world from start to finish who ended up being a top 5 talent in his class. By far zion, ja, and herro are head and shoulders above everyone at this point. If we blindly had a top 5 pick people would be absolutely ecstatic
again with the trex and physical stuff. didn't this thread have that discussion about white nba players and short wingspans already? so steph curry, steve nash, mark price, john stockton all suck according to you? fred vanvleet has a 6'2" wingspan... is he shiet also? didn't the warriors demonstrate all these yrs that you can hide a guy who isn't a plus defender and still win a championship?
I don't know more than you. You keep telling people to watch tape like you're the only one with cable and youtube. I have an opinion. I don't think he's going to be a superstar. I think he could be a very good player. Monte Ellis, Jason Terry come to mind when watching him (notice, neither are white, this isn't a race thing, Herro is not Steve Nash and never will sniff his talent level. ) He will never be the best player on a team that makes the playoffs. He was the fourth best player on the Heat at best and was unplayable at times. I'd put Bam, Butler, Dragic, and Crowder as more important pieces to that run than Herro. I'm glad they played well in a bizarre Mad Max style tournament. I know he's not stationary. That's Duncan Robinson. Both are overvalued because they played well in the bubble. It really wasn't a normal experience. The Suns went 8-0. Ben Simmons is the most underrated player I've ever seen. I don't care that he can't shoot. He's an elite playmaker, elite defender and elite IQ. He could easily be the best player on a championship team. Magic Johnson 2020. I don't care how he fits. I don't care if he score 40 PPG or 10PPG. He plays the right way. The team isn't winning a championship in 2021 with Herro or Simmons, so I'm taking the better asset. It's not even debatable who is the better asset. You get the best asset you can get in a trade regardless of fit unless you're trying to win a championship the same year. Herro would definitely be an easier plug and play. Maybe he raises 20/21 ceiling a bit higher than Simmons because he would fit seamlessly next to Wall. Again, I think Herro might even be an allstar one day. I think Simmons is already an Allstar and will be a top 10 player within a year. If Herro is ever a superstar, remind me.
I don’t want to speak for others, but the way I’m interpreting some of these comments is that Herro is not a finished product by any means he just isn’t likely to develop to a franchise cornerstone, and I totally agree. I think it’s fair to say some good role players have made all star games in the past, and sure he can do the same. Don’ think anyone is trying to dismiss the kid as though he’s a finished product or his game is garbage, but trading a franchise player that rarely comes along for a guy who has potential to make an all star game is insane. Were lucky to have had harden the past 8 years. Some teams in this league have never even had a player remotely close to Harden’s talent, so it’s understandable we’re all a little tough on these potential players involved in any trade package.
ben simmons is nowhere near underrated. stop it. The better asset isn't simmons and his package. someone who is locked for 4 more years at $30 mil plus max that signed to klutch and will just bolt for the bright lights The better asset is a top 5 draft talent that will allow you to clear a 3 year super max off your books instantly
If jason terry and monta ellis are what come to mind when watching herro, i'm not sure we're watching the same player to be honest. i know herro is nowhere near nash in terms of court awareness, ability to dictate tempo, passing... all that. but all u guys knocking on herro have been knocking his physical limitations.. the nash example was just showing that u don't need to be the most athletic or physically gifted to be a top player in this game. but being able to shoot the ball is an ideal skill to have. i personally don't think simmons is a better asset given that he's on a max contract and will account for almost 1/3 of the cap, severely limiting the rockets ability to be flexible when they have all that money tied up to john wall and simmons. on top of that, if almost every team realizes that simmons becomes hell-bent on going to LA bc of his klutch ties... then how does that help his trade value? herro, even if he doesn't end up a superstar, is a player that the rockets have team control over for the next 7-8 years. he is more likely to have a far better return in the future given his contract, his ability to seamlessly fit, and because knockdown 3 pt shooting is at a premium in today's nba.
funny thing is when pg13 was traded for sga, gallo, picks people thought it was insane. my how things have changed. far too many people are settling for the kawhi for derozan swap choice. I certainly don't want to be the one to end up with derozan the known commodity. The classic "safe" choice where it's more name than actual substance. I'll without a doubt take the top 5 draft talent at 20 years old and watch him evolve when your in the rebuilding phase to begin with
Most of other teams fans: I don’t like him but damn I would love to have him on my team. Scrolling the nba forums regarding this issue is hilarious. They are all arguing who’s team has the better offer. Same fans who were hating on him now are fighting amongst themselves who’s teams has the better offer.
I can’t think of a player who has received more unjustified hate from fans league wide and it’s all from fans who have never actually watched this guy hoop. They watch a few highlights on tv/social media and form an opinion, or hear some false narrative and run with it. Regardless of if he stays or goes I think a lot of opinions on him are going to change because of what’s going on right now. All eyes are on him now, and people are going to actually pay attention.
Its his jumpshot. We just watched the lakers completely obliterate us in the postseason by absolutely not guarding Westbrook. It'll be 10x worse with Simmons because he's actually terrified to even attempt the eventual brick. You'd be willing to watch a whole season of teams backing off of Ben Simmons? Also, whats the strategy when teams ignore Simmons?
They won't leave him alone cause Simmons will be in the dunker spot where he belongs and not standing at the perimeter. He's not stupid enough to do things he knows he can't do like Russ. Simmons took 7 3s the whole year Russ took 7 a game. Simmons will never run into the paint and ask Lebron to block his shot into the 5th row. Simmons will never run into a sea of defenders only to turn it over. Russ was unskilled AND stupid. Being smart helps mitigate some of the skill limitations. If Simmons ever gets injured or covid he's not gonna go onto the floor and play as though he's healthy. He'll adjust like any player with a brain would.
Which forums are you checking? I've occasionally been reading sixers, celtics and warriors reddit/forum... But I have to say, those fanbases aren't exactly interested in giving up anything valuable for Harden. It's somewhat divided, but my impression is that they don't want harden if it meant giving up simmons, brown. In regards to simmons and hero. Simmons is 6-10. Him not being able to shoot (which have been mention ad-nasuem) isn't great. But it's also not a disqualifier it would be if he were shorter. It's much easier building around a 6-10 guard (who is essentially a of on defense) who can't shoot versus finding two shooting bigs for a WB or Rubio etc. Simmons is already a top 15-20 player in the league. Build a team around his strength and he can be a top 10 or better. Hero is a good player. I love his game and his confidence. Hes only 19 so it is difficult to predict how good he will be. It's possible he becomes a craftier klay but w/o the defense. Or a hield... Reddick, ben gordon or eddie house. It's hard to predict potential, but his ability to shoot is without question and one of the most valuable skill in the nba.
Wasn't even talking about Rockets context. Just Russ vs Simmons straight up. Look up who Simmons' agent is and you'll know why I don't want the Rockets to trade for him.
Real GM, hoops hype and few others.The majority of the fans of the 6ers and Brooklyn Brooklyn fans are all in the trade camp
