Yet you just suggested earlier that Elton Brand was a better player. Francis has done a lot more elevating than him.
No matter who you trade SF for, Yao will still be a wuss. And you would still need to get back a legitimate number one scoring option in return. Yao has proven to be very inconsistent, soft, and timid inside. Just a fact.
Why do I revert to "Steve's the best we have" or "There's no one better to get"? Because it's true. Unbelievably enough, NBA GM's do not hang out RealGM trade checker all day long. Elton Brand has not been reported as being dangled in front of the Rockets; Francis is a base year player anyway, making him virtually impossible to trade till after the season. For that reason alone, 90 percent of these trade threads are garbage. Phoenix was not in a similar situation, they started out the year as one of the worst teams in the WC and were fading from playoff contention when they made the deal. Do you think if they had our record and were in the 6th spot in the WC, they would have made the decision to essentially blow up the season and hope that Kobe 1. doesn't go to jail; and 2. signs with Phx? Marbury may not be the most reliable guy, but at least he actually was under contract and not incarcerated...You think suns fans were happy about that deal? They didn't get value, they got cap room...which is only value if you're able to use it. Ask Jerry Krause to see if that's a foolproof plan. Ironic that you mention Abdur Rahim-- he is the Real GM jockey's second most desired player after Brand...grass greener...
If we could send Francis and Mobley to a team that can't attract FAs - maybe they wwould give fair value. Utah - H and K combined with Yao would give us the slowest team in the league. Clipps - Elton would work. Maybe even Eli, Wilcox and Q. Milw - nothing there Toronto - Vince? Do we want the gimp? Memphis - Gasol and Miller(or even Battier) would work well around Yao. If we push for a deal, then we will have to sacrifice to make it happen - like Cleveland and NY. The sad thing is we do not have a lot that teams want - in order; Yao, SF, draft picks, cap room, cat, (then maybe Jackson or cato). Noone else has value. I still say Francis and Mobley for R.Allen and Rashard would be sweet. And if anyone is willing to take Taylor - my only question is what do we have to add to make it happen. As far as Cato goes - trade him while he has value!
I wonder if there is another player debate in the NBA like the Francis debate. I think it might be unprecedented. Most fans on sports boards are MAJOR fans, and the super-Rocket's fans on this board are deeply divided on this issue. I have been listening to Gene Peterson for his entire career with the Rockets,and I have never heard him make as many derogatory remarks about any player as he has about Steve Francis. But he has also heaped praise on him. The same goes for Calvin and Bill. Francis is quite the conundrum. The Francis issue is a real source of frustration for the best of Rocket's fans. When there is that much long-standing antimated controvery, I think it is time to make a move and unite this team and its fans again.
it amazes me that some point to the other players we have now as a reason to get rid of Francis without sacrificing scoring....yet point to Francis as the reason why a rebuilding team didnt make it to the playoffs 4 seasons ago...and yes...until 2 seasons ago,we were still rebuilding from the Dream days. Alot of other rebuilding teams took alot longer than 2 freaking seasons to make it back to the playoffs...just ask the Bulls or the Clippers. bring on the flames.
We have enough scoring options. The team has been better when Francis deferred and was not the #1 option. The whole point of trading Francis is that you can improve one or both of our forward spots and bring in a mediocre point guard to distribute to all the other scorers we already have. I don't know why I am typing all of this though, as it is exactly the same thing I was saying in the passage you quoted. We do not need to get back "a legitimate number one scoring option" in return. We need to get back a power forward better than Cato, a SF better than Jim Jackson, or both.
I am not going to give an opinion on trading Steve, but there are plenty of passing point guards out there who are fundamentally sound players. They can pass and shoot. Steve Blake of the Wizards really passed the ball well against the Rockets. He was drafted in the 2nd round. He's making around $200k. He played much better than Moochie, and I think he's better than Wilks. It's just a question of whether or not they bring the players in or they see the game tapes from college.
If Francis is the damaged goods that people claim he is, then why do they think we can't get equal or greater value back for him? Are you guys smarter than every NBA GM out there? Somebody show me a trade that would actually happen. What's the incentive for Indiana? If Francis is holding back Yao, wouoldn't he cause problems for O'neal? Why would the Clipps trade Brand, and what PG do they have that would make a difference? How about Wallace and McInnis? Won't it be great when Wallace is beaning Yao after practice with basketballs as a joke? I bet Phoenix would love to give us the one legged McDyess and Howard Eisley. Does Jamison and Travis Best do it for you? Rahim and Dickau? I bet we could get Brian Grant from Miami, then it's your pick, Rafer Alston or Bimbo Coles. Maybe Tim Thomas and Erick Strickland. We could get Kenyon Martin maybe, though we'd have to pay him the max, since that's what he'll ask for. We could get Juwon Howard and Tyronne Lue with is awesome starting stats of 3.9 assists. The possibilities are endless, any of these excellen combo of players would make us better
Steve isn't so much damaged goods as he is simply mismatched. Granted, he has sticky fingers and it is his inclination to keep rather than pass the ball, and he must be reminded constantly that he has four teammates on the floor with him, etc etc. But any number of teams (EC especially) would take him in a heartbeat. Indiana is not going to need Steve because they have a coach who preaches even more discipline than JVG. I would say the Bulls, looking to deal, would take Steve as their combo guard with Hinrich the main PG (how about Steve/Cato/A-Griff etc to Chicago; Crawford to his hometown Seattle along with Fizer and Curry and Robinson; we get Rashard, Barry, a backup center from Seattle, etc)? Or Washington? Tell me Steve wouldn't fill the arena in his ole stomping grounds, playing in front of grandma. Hell, swap Steve for Charlotte's 1st-rounder in the June draft. There are deals to be had, to be sure. But methinks nothing will happen until the offseason.
Contrary to popular belief, Francis is not traded because Mr Yao Ming is here. Imagine this team without Yao Ming, I will trade Fancis for cap space or whatever in a heartbeat. But Yao is here so there is hope, let's wait another couple of years and see. And right now no question Francis is the leader of this team. That's why he got most of the blame, deal with it. It has come to a situation that Yao fans can't say Yao is bad and Francis fans can't say Francis is bad. Because people have become enermies. People should let it chill and have a FRIENDLY discussion. Give some space to each other, so Yao fans can say Yao sucks and Steve fans can say Steve sucks. I'm sure they are willing to. There is just no proper atmosphere. Till that day.
A team has to have a number one scoring option if they want to go far in the playoffs. Your star player has to raise his game and carry the team. That's why a team that's 12 deep like SAC lost those years to a two man team - LAL. Because in the tough moments you need to know who's getting the ball and you need to know that player will get it done. Ask yourself, in the final seconds of a game do you really have confidence that Yao can even hold on to the ball much less continuously score in the teeth of an aggresive, physical defense? That's why you need a number one scoring option. With all his faults, I trust Steve a heck of a lot more in those situations as does JVG.
at this point.. I think I can make a move of swapping Mo for Sheed. Look at Sheed's no.s today. A double double! He's definitely a star quality of a player..Mo's definitely has a value right now...
I think they'd do it for the right personnel. Rashard and Radmanovic duplicate many of the same talents. I know, it's unlikely. It was mentioned in some newspaper yesterday that Rashard could be had for the right price. I admit, this article was just as likely media grandstanding as an actual possibility.
Get rid of Pike, Nachbar is doing fine, i dont have a thing against pike, but i think that the SF position is taken care of by Jim and Boki, so for now, he is at the end of the bench, if we could trade him for another forward, or backup center, that would be nice.
I've taken the time to read most all these threads and it seems TO ME (opinion) that most of you are missing the POINT pun intended. Take Steve from this team and the Rockets are lottery bound. Even Jason Kidd couldn't save'em. - Yoa can't run when this is a running team-watch when he comes out of a game what happens. He tires too quickly - too much summer ballin'. Ever watch this kid defensive rebound...if it doesn't come right to him it's an offensive rebound waiting to happen. -Yoa's success depends on Steve (and vice-versa) who draws more double teams than ANY point guard in the league. If Yoa gets better position and hangs on to the ball turnovers go down (see less touches-less turnovers) more points are scored as in the last 4 games. - The thing not recognized is Yoa is not yet NBA toughness-ready and needs another year, while not playing year round, to get stronger physically and rested mentally. Yoa improves, Steve's assist to turnover ratio improves, more point in the paint, more fast breaks. This is a tandem you dream of. Without Sam Cassell, Dream and Houston has one championship insted of two. Debate if you must but inside out is much better than inside...inside. It is harder to double the point and the post, I know anyone can buy into that. Of course it helps to defend and hit a few shot. Steve's defense isn't great, but did you watch him last year? Eons of improve ment. If I sound like a Steve supporter then that's the way it is...I Love Talent and this kid has plenty of it and is still learning the game. Think Mark Jackson was this good at this point in his career? He topped out at this point. Bottom line is...you can not like the player and way he plays, but you cannot deny Talent or replace it with a draft picks EXPECTATION and a few castoffs. While Pike was a bad deal another deal is likely to happen before the trade deadline regardless of how well we are playing now. NEED? I still think we need a bigger two. I would start Jim Jackson at the two, Nachbar at the three ,bring Mobley off the bench MoT and AG (if)when he ever gets healthy.(still don't unstand signing this guy based on the current rotation). Also I think Padgett is a key player off the bench..he just seems to make things happen. Keep him on the floor instead of bringing Yoa in and we win at Memphis. This is what I think.
