So your objection is economic in nature? Come on, that is a total cop out. It's not your money. The perfect complement to Yao would be Ben Wallace, but he ain't available Francis has not shown success? What planet are you on? Yeah, he's only lead or been 2nd or 3rd the team in scoring, assists, steals, boards, etc for the past 4 years. Yeah, he has done nothing in this league... Better we trade him for a proven winner like Elton Brand. I can only imagine the mutiny and the serial b****fest that would arise on this BBS when the Rockets acquire Elton Brand, and he gets the Ball in the Low post, while Yao stands out by the 3 point line, checking his watch. "Brand is a black hole! Yao doesn't get the ball enough " "It's all Cat's fault". Do you remember when Hakeem and Barkley were here? You know how much they worked a two man game? Pretty much never. You guys just never give up. Steve is not a perfect player, far from it, but he is very good, better than anyone we have, and better than anybody who is available. I know it sucks for you guys to hear this, but its true. You are stuck with him. So if you hate him so much then get a new hobby besides watching the Rockets, because its not going to make you very happy.
And you're blinded by your love for him. Just face it, some players don't fit in some systems. It doesn't mean that they're not great players. Francis is much more effective in a guard oriented system. However, we appear to be moving toward a more center dominated system. Can Francis adjust his game? I'd say emphatically, yes, he can. However, thus far, he's resisted it. I started a thread that statistically, backs up a previous thread Clutch started, which shows how much more effective we are at winning games when Francis focuses on feeding Yao & Mobley, while cutting down on his FGA's. If Francis will embrace that role, then he could be well on his way to being one of the best PG's in the NBA. Until then, he's fast becoming a liability to this team. With Yao & Mobley, all we need is a good PG that passes first & shoots (effectively) second. Unless he adapts his game, then trading him would net us a starting PF & a good distributing PG.
You guys make it sound so easy, but exactly which allstar PF and a passing PG combo is available? Come on, I'm listening. Kenny Smith made an excellent point tonight that seems to be lost on others on this board. This team needs a middle ground, it shouldn't be just a center oriented team, especially now since the current center isn't exactly consistent, nor should it be just guard oriented because 2 winning seasons and no playoffs doesn't equal success. It should be balanced. The Grizz seemed to have shut Yao down, when he was out of the game, the Rockets fought back and took the lead. The idea that this team can just use one system against every team and win every time doesn't seem to work. Our team should adapt per game to what is most succesful against their current opponent. People are blinded by their disgust for Francis and Mobes, call them street ballers, and demand that the team just become center oriented when Yao hasn't proven that he can be the focus of the team. Also, the completely miss how blessed we are to have a good big man and good guards. The problem is coaching. JVG has got these guys disciplined, but he doesn't know jack about offense. As for statistics, instead of a break down of shot attempts per win, we ought to look at touches.
Bullsh-t. I don't bear any special love for steve Francis at all above and beyond any of the rest of the Rockets players. He deserves credit and he deserves blame. However, a neutral observer reading this message board would gather that he is a terrible terrible player. What I particularly objected to was somebody pointing to last night's game, one of his best of the season to date; he took care of hte ball, got his teammates involved [please don't whine about not passin to Yao, he had a terrible night, he was quadruple teamed, couldn't stop anybody on defense, and was so gassed he couldn't even jump for a rebound-- by the second period], shot the ball decently if not amazingly well, played pretty decent defense... and somebody points to it and says that he's the reason why we lost the game. Bullsh-t. He's the reason why we lost by 5 points and not 15 points. How long after we traded him would you wait to start a trade thread about who we traded him for? A day? A week? Face it, he's not going anywhere this year, so I wish everybody would just stop whining about it for, like, oh, I don't know, a single freaking day. I almost hope we do trade him for a PF; the spectacle of the massive rebellion by the YOF crowd and the serial bashers when this awesome new PF goes one on one down low while Yao grabs his wristband on the perimeter is almost worth it.
Did you read "Clutch's" summary of the game? He said virtually the same thing as 3-a-charm did. So Clutch is a "hater:" more of a superfan in my opinion. What you are missing is most negative comments about Francis are not based on a one game evaluation. He had one of his best games of the year against Memphis, but his "fatal errors" were a factor in the loss. There is alot of "spill over" frustration. He tries to take over games and he rarely does this successfully. It is still a TEAM game.
No, I actually watched the game and formed my own opinion, and if you think, after watching last night's game, that the Rockets should have deferred to their big men more, then you weren't watching the same game.
Actually Ming looked like he took the evening off. He seemed very disinterested. It is true that he did not get many touches, but he seemed to fumble the ones he got. Big men, small men; not the issue. Just hit the open man, preferrably the one closest to the basket. Again, I said that Francis played one of his best games, he just made some poor decisions down the stretch. It was a very entertaining game, almost playoff like. You Francis people are so sensitive. Chill out, this is all just for fun.
Francis kept them in the game. Yao and his soft style with no speed left them standing still. Young teams with great coaches are going to beat up the Rockets. I bet a tape is going around right now. Denver will do the same thing....
I agree, that's why I hate it when people bash our players all the time, win or lose, 24/7. A little positivity is what being a sports fan is all about...we're not the Boston Red Sox.
I am having a hard time wondering why that many here on this board are not putting two and two together. It is clearly obvious the Rockets play better as a team when Francis plays a lesser role on the offensive side of the ball and defers to the team. In doing what coach Van Gundy emphasizes Francis do, (play more of a distributor role), the team is much better. The problem with this is that while we play better when he takes a backseat, he is not worth 86 million dollars on the court. I do not feel that this aspect is up for debate. There are a number of players in the league that can set up the offense for half or less that half of that money. Considering the direction of the Rockets organization and the team philosophy, it is my feeling that Steve is better suited for a different team with a different philosophy. I mentioned a trade with the Magic, if they were to have the first overall pick, where in which the Rockets, although trading Steve and Cato, would be able to draft Okafor in addition to getting mid-range and long-range shooters as well as point guard depth. I feel a deal like this would be perfect for the Rockets and the Magic. Orlando would have a solid line-up with a foundation of Francis, Tracy McGrady, Gooden and Cato. A line-up similar to that, in the east, would be a great fit for Francis and Cato. The Rockets would still have the inside presence with Okafor, but Emeka gives us more at the power forward than Cato. The other players gives us flexibility in many ways. We have the choice of keeping them for their value to the team and depth or we could use some of them to help bring in some needed veterans. And again, we still have the MLE and the trade exception to find a solid starting point guard in the off-season.
Bashing players, coaches, owners is a big part of being a sports fan and they do it with regularity in every city I have ever lived it. They also brag on them profusely and shower them with lots of money. It's sports. The real question is the future of Steve Francis on this team; is he more of an asset or a liability? Last night, with a few exceptions, he played great, maybe his best game of the year. Five years is a very very long time. His inclinations have remained the same. His popularity has waned. Many on this board and elsewhere, think it is time for a change. If you think that is bashing, it is your opinion. Some of us consider such discussion to be in the purview of player and team evaluation. Trust me, if there was not an issue, it would not be constantly brought up. Most fans would rather praise a player on their team than criticize him.
As someone more ready then ever to show stevie the door a month ago, I have to say that with the "growth" spurt he has show the last two weeks I am inclined to agreed with the "don't fix what ain't broken...yet" group now. Give it a year, especially at least one playofff round, to see what gives with stevie, jvg, and Tall Boy. p.s. Can somebody get him a jock strap please ? It may still be a case of latent hormonal growth spurts being needed..let's boost his vitamin intact...and oh yeah, throw in a double dose of Chinese Red Dragon Ginsing pleeezzzz...
The problem with the show Francis the door now club is that they think Yao is already a finished product who is being held back by Francis, couldn't be further from the truth. If Yao was dominant now, then parting ways with Francis for the right deal would make sense, but if Yao is gonna play like a wuss his whole life, then having a PG who only gives him the ball=Yao getting abused. I don't think a decision should be made until the last year of Yao's contract.
We don't even need star PF. All we need IMO is a PF that can knock down open jumpers and play good D and rebound. PJ Brown type of player would complement Yao well. Steve and Cuttino are virtually the same IMO. Their games are redundant of each others. JJ fits in very well with our team. I think we should look to move Cato to an Eastern Conference team and we should try to get back a PF like AL HARRINGTON. I think it might just be a pipedream to get AL without giving up Mobley.
That might be true if the only option we had on offense were Yao and Francis. It turns out that we also have Jackson, Mobley, Taylor, and most importantly whoever we get back from trading Francis. For some reason, whenever the prospect of trading Francis pops up, the Francis lovers come back with "look what happened when Francis was out in 2001, we were 2-21". No one is suggesting that we simply cut Francis (also, we didn't have Yao, Taylor, or Jackson back then either). Just look at the record when Francis defers to Yao and Mobley. Imagine if someone were defering to Yao, Mobley, and one or more of [Brand, Chandler, Dunleavy, Murphy, Lewis, Allen, etc.]. Francis is at his best being the number one option on a team. The Rockets are at their best when Francis is not the number one option. This isn't Rocket science.
SamFisher and all others who think we can't possibly do better than Steve Francis- How is it that you and others here constantly revert to "Steve's the best we have" or "There's no one better to get"? To me, the top two PGs are JKidd and Payton, and each has been traded at least once, with Kidd getting dealt twice. Kidd even tried to make it four teams by going to SA this summer. Furthermore, the player SFrancis reminds me the most of is Starbury, and guess who just got dealt for the fourth time in only 8 seasons? That's right, Stephon himself has now been dealt four different times. Has Steve accomplished so much more that he deserves better treatment than Marbury? The Rockets front office and fans owe him nothing, and to suggest that we should not make a deal because no one else is available is completely unfounded. Look what Phoenix did. They were a perrenial borderline playoff team (like us) who decided to move a supremely talented, score-first PG (like Steve) to acquire the cap room necessary to make a run at Kobe, or whoever else next summer. Basically, Phoenix was in a very similar situation to us, but rather than settle for being mediocre, they decided to role the dice in hopes of getting a proven, dynamic, dependable playoff performer who could take their immensely talented support staff to the next level. Are we so different? Remember, Amare beat out Yao for ROY last year and Marion is a legit All-Star at the 3. It is not as if they are starting from scratch here. In fact, I would say that Yao/Mobley vs. Amare/Marion is a draw at best. Did Phoenix say "Awe shucks, we're stuck with Marbury, we have no alternatives, I guess we should just hope our team 'gells'."? No, of course not. Steve Francis is an entertaining, sometimes dominant offensive force who has had 5 going on 6 years to elevate this team, and here we are, still on the border of the playoffs five years later. I do not blame him for all our problems, nor am I of the mindset that anyone on this team has to go anywhere. But I do believe in results, not potential, and a six-year veteran without a single playoff game under his belt says a lot more to me about the quality of a player than his number of All-Star games, career averages, or anything else. Just ask Shareef Abdur-Rahim how hard it is to pile up great numbers without winning anything.
Actually it is 4 going on 5. Otherwise, well said (though I don't think Francis is as good as Marbury).
