Exactly. Maybe Yao is being limited to post up more to simplify the offense and the learning curve for Yao and the team, i.e. get the basics down and add wrinkles as the offense develops with the new players being messed in (MT and Pike)
Last year verses this year (I checked these stats before last night's game). YM last year points 13.5 minutes 29 this year points 16.8 minutes 34.7 SF last year points 21 minutes 41 this year points 18.4 minutes 39.3 CM last year points 17.5 minutes 41.7 this year points 16.3 minutes 40.8 What's interesting about all this is that if you look at YM's points per minute they are virtually unchanged from last year. The fact his scoring average has gone up 3.5 points per game is simply because he's play time has increased by 5 min per game. Raven
I agree that feeding the hot hand of a very good or star player on a team is smart and the way things are, and should be. There was a stretch of about 3 possessions where Yao was open or single covered, and the team failed to get him the ball, I think in the course of a game a few possessions like that are things to look at. Several others reported Yao moving himself to set picks, act as a passer more than a shooter, the Clippers coach telling his team to deny Yao the ball etc. Plus Cat got hot at the same time when Yao wasn't getting shots. So it would seem natural to feed the ball to Cat, and then Mo Taylor who had a streak of his own. The ball movement was crisp, our lead increased, and I think we played smart outside of one small stretch.
This is an excellent. I agree with all your points, MacBeth. I trust it is a combination of all your points, with the other team defensive adjustments probably ranking the most. One more point we should not ignore is the cultures behind the player. A team is made up of its individual players, whose character and cultural background as a whole influence the team norm. We have been raised in our Western and American in particular culture that emphasize so much on individualism, creativity and courage. So, our guards have the ball and that tends to reflect our culture and individual show is innately part of it. On the contrary, China is a socialist society educated with various "dao" (family value, national loyalty, team first philosophy and doctrine) for thousands of years. When Yao scores a lot, unintentioanlly but naturally, he would stop and let his teammates shine. This pattern has inherited in Yao's game not only in Rocket, but also in the Chinese national team. You seldom see Yao have many touches from his CNT guards unless it is really an important such as the final game against the Korean in the latest Asian tournament. Here you go. As long as that does not cost us a game if our guards could find the open shot (or man) when Yao is doubled team, I am fine with that. That was exactly the case last night. But at least the Memphis and the Toronto games were different ball game. I wished we had passed the ball more to Yao, particularly during he crunch time. I honestly believe such attitude costed us those two games. Hopefully, this pattern will change as the season moves on. And in playoff time, we shall Yao playing and having touches like the Asian Tournament final.
Mobley can't do it alone. Francis can't do it alone. Yao can't do it alone. It's a team game and everyone must get everyone involved. When that is happening, it's all gravy. When it's not, the Yao-only lemmings start their march in protest of everything not Yao and the whole hearted Rockets fans defend Yao's teammates because they are sick of having Yao elevated to god status. It's going to take some time for everything to come together with this team. Everyone is still learning what their teammates are capable of with the exception of the Francis/Mobley/Norris trio mixed with a little Cato. Pretty much everyone else is still fairly new to the Rockets. Boki has seen almost 3 times more minutes in the first month of this season than he did all of his rookie year. Pike and Padgett are new to the squad. Mo-T, who has arguably shown the most trust in Yao, has had very limited time with the team over the past few years. And please save the "guards are selfish" comments. Both Francis' and Mobley's scoring is down because they are moving the ball more, trying to get the team involved. Take a look at last night's game for example. Mobley(6 assists) fed Yao with many an entry pass last night and a few dishes under the basket after penetrating the defense. Francis had 9 dishes of his own. For those of you that may feel like arguing that Francis should carry more of the scoring load than Mobley, Francis is shooting 43% from the field and a dismal 27% from downtown. Cuttino is matching Steve from the field, but is bombing the nets shooting 45% from downtown. Question either of their shot selections all you want, but both Mobley and Francis are exceptional scorers that need to be taken advatage of, especially in a system with a player that has the potential to dominate the paint(Yao). It has NOTHING to do with selfishness.
I've seen the "freeze out" in two contexts and I think there are different explanations for both of them. 1. When we're beating the other team somewhat handily, like last night. I think Francis and Mobley are somewhat immature and do not feel the urgency to run the offense through Yao when we're ahead. It's like the lead justifies decisions that depart from the team concept. The thought appears to be . . . well, we're ahead by quite a bit so this won't cost us the game and I'll probably score anyway, so I really don't have to get the ball to Yao. I'm not a mind reader, so I can't say this is actually what's going on. But it's my opinion that it is. 2. When we're in a tight ballgame and it's late in the 4th quarter. Francis and Mobley do not trust their passing ability, Yao's ability to carry them to victory, and are not totally comfortable or sold on the JVG offense. So, they revert back to their natural tendancies, which is to take people off the dribble and create. I'm trying to remember if this has occurred when Yao was hot. I can only recall the game in which Yao scored 15 of his 21 in the 4th quarter, and that was the time where Mobley ignored Yao in the low post. Either way, the problem is between the ears for Francis and Mobley. It is true that the opposing team's defenses have much to do with Yao not getting as many good scoring opportunities. But I still see problems with Francis and Mobley's mental approach.
Very insighful, I think you are on to something. I still say our guards have long-standing "ball-hog" instincts, but they may be improving some. Given the opportunity, they will return to what they have always done. All the other factors come into play.
Go back to the top of this page and read(or re-read) codell's breakdown of the third quarter. The offense was run thru several players, including Yao.
I saw Codell's break down and agree that Yao did have some opportunities. But I still think the mentality I described exists. There's a lack of dedication and focus. it seems that at the beginning of games, we always start the right way. We run the offense properly. Then it slips. You can't just let the other team take you out of the offense. The responsibility for getting the ball to Yao when the defense is collapsing is shared by yao, steve, cat and the others. Yao needs to do a better job of fighting for position. But, the guards also must be more committed to get him the ball and reward him for the fight. It's almost pavlovian - if Yao finds that he is getting ignored while in the low block, he will not fight as hard. What's the use? It appears that Yao has gotten accustomed to being ignored by Mobley in the low block, so he pops out to set a pick. (I'm trying real hard not to turn this into a bash Mobley post). I'm just saying that the commitment to getting Yao the ball isn't there, by Yao, Steve or Mobley. This is a process that must evolve and a burden that must be shared among the big 3.
Or the defense is adjusting as the game goes on and attempting to take away things that we were using to exploit them?? As much as I have critiqued Yao in the past on his positioning, that was really not the case last night. On numerous occasions, he was doubled without the ball, or, an extra defender was playing the passing lane. Yao can and should be able to fight off one man, but there is no way he can fight off two. Positioning doesnt matter when you are doubled without the ball. I think for the most part, they are. They are getting into a set where Yao is on the block with his back to the basket. Various things are preventing him from receiving the pass though. Its not always wise to force it in, without regard to turnover and whatnot, especially, if Yao's teamates are being efficient at making the D pay. I counted at least 5 or 6 times last night where Mobley passed Yao the ball. Furthermore, Mobley is rarely in a position to make an entry pass. Usually the SF (JJ or Boki) make this pass, with Steve doing it the rest of the time. So its not just the "big 3". Lets call it the big 4 or 5 and lump JJ and a few others in there. Last, when Mobley gets the ball, its usually because the set has him as an option and for the most part, he is taking good shots. I am not sure how he can be faulted so much. I am pretty sure that JVG has no problem with most of the shots that Cat takes, since they are usually in the flow of the offense (save for the occasional runner or ill advised shot under coverage).
The Rockets may also lose confidence in Yao not just because of turnovers, but also if he is taking more low-percentage shots than high-percentage shots, or hasn't been dominating in one-on-one coverage like they feel he should. Though he may have hot hands, they may feel that his well may run dry at any moment. Teammates won't pass it to him and will try to find another way to get a shot. Another thing to consider is balance. JVG has been preaching this a lot since he's been to Houston. Many people have called him a defensive coach, but I JVG has disagreed with this and I concur: he strongly believes in balance. With that in mind, it may be possible that our guards are (under JVG's call) trying to keep the offensive attack spread out among other players. I don't know how much of a factor this is, but I do know that Yao has indicated on his web site that ofte when people feel Steve is being selfish, he is just following JVG's call. Yet another possibility (though I find it doubtful) may be that Yao is pacing himself. After playing all summer, and knowing that there are still a lot of games to play this year, he may just be trying not to burn out too early in the season. He could accomplish this by taking himself out of the game. Again, I don't think this is much of a reason, but I can't ignore it as a possibility. As you have noted, MacBeth, the reasons you listed, with the reasons above, (and possiblty others) combine to be the probable cause that Yao doesn't get the ball as often as we want him to, and get no touches even though he has hot hands. -- droxford
MacBeth, Now we can safely put you in the YOF category. And let me tell you the truth, SamFisher is only your friend in the Hangout. Not here. He hates YOFs. Seriously, as I said in the game thread, the complaint about the 3rd Q is valid but it's partly because of the Clippers defensive adjustment. Codell has it down right. But what the YOF didn't mention was that the 4th Q adjustment by the Rockets are great. And Yao was intrumental in getting his teammates great shots. codell, thanks for the break down. Can you do the same for the 4 minutes in the 4th when Yao was in the game?
Thank you for pointing out that Mobley fed Yao in the post on many occasions last night! He also dished the ball to Yao for an easy basket once or twice after driving and breaking down the interior defense. Man, it seems like some people comment without watching the games. Another thing, although the season is still young, Mobley is averaging almost half an assist more than last year, including the 6 dishes he had last night. Selfish? I think not. More like Yao aggressively attacking the basket and Mo-T hitting his jumpers. Also, Mobley is taking good shots for the most part. He is right on his career average from the field(IMO will improve), but he is also hitting a sweet 45% from downtown, 10% higher than his career average. Mobley, a natural shooter, has always been streaky. No question, his shot selection can be suspect at times, but he has made progress over the past few years as he has matured. As long as he continues to get open looks, I say keep shooting. His shots will fall.
Good albeit well-worn thread. I agree that it is a combination of the factors pointed out by Macbeth and others that contribute to the icing phenomenon. And which factor is most significant varies from night to night. Last night, I thought it was defensive adjustments, so I don't agree with the ESPN radio commentators. I think two problems bear emphasis. One, it should be RARE that Yao establishes deep post position and doesn't get the ball. Think Hakeem. This still happens too often, and we can only guess why. The guards do seem to be improving in this regard, and I have faith that JVG will give them religion. On a slight tangent, Pike's return and JVG's ability to parcel out the guard minutes may have a beneficial effect on the guards carrying out JVG's gameplan. Second, as Yetti pointed out (didn't think I'd be typing those words )Yao still seems content at times not to be the focal point of the offense. He establishes position on the weak side when the strong side low post is open. Or he abandons the post too quickly to set a high side pick. Again, we can only guess why this happens, but I think over time Yao will get more comfortable being the focal point of the offense more of the time. It will be interesting to see if icing Yao is still as much of an issue after the All-Star break.
codell and rileydog are both making good points. codell is breaking down what HAPPENED by analyzing player positioning after the fact. rileydog is talking about how, conceptually, we need to be dealing with codell's information. steve and cuttino are trying, it is plain to see that they are playing hard and making strides within van gundy's system. however, there is no doubt that our guards are fighting a bit of a jeckell and hyde thing, and do, at times, as rileydog says, go back to their old selfish ways.
