One thing more. On some China B-ball BBS about tonight's game, fans saying that Yao just slowed himself down aftter the 1st half for he dont want to challenge SF3 or Mobley for over-scoring them too much. Is it true? I dont know, but as a Chinese I can totally understand his atitude if he means to. It's not time to crown, we know it.
Another poster brought up a point in the game thread that is valid here: Freeze-out? Sounds like a Freeze out by LA... no?
MacBeth, in the game thread, I asked the same question and I even asked SamFisher if he want some of the clips Yao was wide open or just single covered in the third QT? I watched the game and taped it. And he said No. I am glad somebody has the same expression, to me, winning is important, but how you win the ball game is important too. I don't care how many times Yao shoot the ball, but what confuse me is the guard simply ignore him in a stretch, it happened in Portland game which is nationally broadcast so everybody can watch the game. I agree with you, it almost a pattern right now. Again, I don’t care how many times Yao shoots, but when Yao got the ball first, drew double team, threw to perimeter, we score 7 pts in a roll easily. That really troubles me, why Rox didn't do it more and try the hard way instead?
If Yao Ming is hot and try to avoid the spotlight while the Clippers make a comeback only down by 6, shouldn't the coaches have something to say to Yao???? Pretty odd to me!
In response to the question: !) All of the above 2) It's not easy to play with a big man after more than two years of free-lancing. 3) Yao still have let others have a go mentality.
Ivan, see the above quote attributed to Dunleavy. Seems to indicate that Yao was being doubled by the clippers most of the time, no?
Thats exactly my take on the third quarter. It wasnt the Clips defence it was Yao Ming taking himself out of his receiving area. In so doing he was not in position to be a scoring threat.
exactly, he dont need to be inactive on the court, he only need to do some other things to make space for his teamates.
Why don't we just agree that the Rockets Guards and Yao have a co-dependent relationship, with Yao as the enabler. They both need to work on their problems in order to have a healthy productive relationship. Now lets go back to debating uniforms and the Rockets annoucner, shall we?
Nobody is denying the factor of defensive adjustment in this thread. Everyone is discussing a combination of factors here. As most of everybody points out. In the 4th, they double-teamed, but Rockets still played inside-out and resulted some quick open outside scores. In the 3rd, they doubled, and Rockets didn't even try to go inside much. Also there was still instance that Yao is single-covered or open. You are the one who grabs every straw to support your narrow pre-determined view, never cares to REALLY listen to the others.
The turnovers would, I think, explain a certain reluctance to go to him in general, but not the pattern of seeing him get hot and then ignoring him. It's gotten to the point where, once Yao got hot tonight, I wrote ( in the chat room) How long before we ice Yao? This was before the o-for 2nd half, so the fact that something so extreme happened only reaffirmed a pattern already evident. I agree that his being frozen out, in general, is not nearly as much of a problem. His beeing frozen out when red- hot is. I can't think of any other star player, or even very good player who would be carrying a team, shooting perfect, rebounding, etc. at the half, and then not see the ball for almost the entire 3rd quarter...can you? It would have been different if he came out of the half 0 for 3 or something...but he was 0-0 with 0 opportunities. And, again, this isn't just about tonight.
Chill out. ALl I did was respond to something that was addressed directly to me by pointing out the Clippers apparent game plan. I'm not saying its any one or the other factor at all. I didn't take any such position. No need for the personal attack, all it does is derail a fine thread so I am not going to respond.
Thanks for the kind words, and completely agree with this part of your post, especially about SHaq/Duncan. In the short term, it rewards the opposing coach for his adjustment and doesn't even try to see if it was a good one, or if it can be overcome. It also denies the opportunities which come out of an inside-out scheme based on the assumption of a double team, as I understand that this wasn't a deny all the time kind of situation. And long term, if Yao is going to be a franchise center, he's going to have to learn to work his way through double teams...Of course tonight wasn't the time for him to learn that lesson...better it happens in one of those mythical games which don't matter.
Sam... I feel a little reluctant to address this re: tnight, as I didn't see it, but the announcers were saying over and over that there were times in the 3rd where Yao wasn't being doubled at all, but was still being ignored. I myself can attest that this has happened often this year in other games, so I saw no reason to assume they were inaccurate. Also, I know what you're saying, but assuming that the defensive adjustment would be effective without once tring to test it, and keep your star hot would seem to be a defeatist attitude. You've gotta throw a few fastballs to a fastball hitter you've never faced before deciding to never use your best pitch against him.
Basically it is frustrating. I want to see Rox winning in the right way. I am happy to see the inside-out game, SF and Cat hit all the open three or lay-up score 30pts each to close the game in third QT, rather seeing they working hard dribbling, ISO, keeping triggering and wait they got hot. I hate to see they take the harder way. They played stupid losing to Portland and they played stupid winning the Clippers, but some of the BBSer here just don't understand, if they played smarter, they could have won the both games!!
is it really that silly to suggest? it's obvious that yao isn't going to have a 40 point game within the next couple of years... barring any change to the "big three" anyway. i'm sure that i wasn't the only guy at halftime that had a gut feeling that yao wouldn't get the ball for the rest of the game. and for what reason?!? there's is no f'ing reason. tonight was one of the rare night's that yao had the opportunity to seize the game and take advantage of a completely mediocre (at best) defense. sure they bumped the guy around before he got the ball, but after that it was smooth sailing. in this early season yao has had to fight to get post position, fight to back down his opponent, and fight to get off his shot. bumping his opponent before shooting i'm sure would throw off his shot momentum a bit. he had to deal with NONE of that tonight, why not take what the defense gives you? huh? there is no good reason. yeah...ok... fine... we won, but they sure in the hell are making it A LOT harder on themselves. they spend so much time battling themselves and fighting their strengths. they're their own enemy. won't work against the elite teams. one shot in the second half from the guy who's 6 of 6 from the field? the guy that the offense is supposed to run through? the guy that has the highest fg% on the team? is there really an excuse for that? a good one?
The defense always makes adjustment, individually, or as a team. So that should explain part of the occasions in your pattern. The other parts are the conbination of following things from my observation. First, our players, especially the back court, are not very good at making counter-moves after defensive adjustment. Basketballl is like a chess match when play at a high level, it involves moves, adjustments, and counter-adjustments. We are just no very good at that once the defense makes adjustment to stop Yao from his "comfortable" spots. Second, "bad" habits by the guards. Coaches always tell the players to goto the "hot" hand until it becomes "cold", or the opponent stops it. In reality, players always think about getting their share of opportunities, they believe they could become the "hot" hand if give opportunity. I won't call this "selfish", because you want the players to have that confidence, and most of the players think that way, too. If the other players did get their opportunities, and it works out for them, then no one would say anything about not going to the "hot" hand any more. But more often than not, it won't work out, so that highlights the "selfish", or "conspiracy" presented by those players. This is a very tough problem to attack, especiall when you have several capable offensive players, like the Rockets. The "ego" thing. You cannot be a great player without ego; but you won't be a winner when your ego gets in the way of team play. I know it's tough for Francis & Mobley to make the transition to be the no-focal-point of the offense after four years free balls. I always LOL when someone say "XXX wants to win over anything" when they know nothing personally about the player. That's total bull**t. Do you think Francis would take it if JVG let him come off the bench, tell him it would be in the best interest of the team? Hell, no way! So everyone has ego in this league, it's the coaches job to held those egoes in check. As I said in my other post, the Rockets' defense will get them enough wins, maybe even the 1st round playoff win. But to become an elite team, they need to address the offensive problem, and the Rockets have a long way to go. --daoshi
I'm not really sure what to make of it either. Some posters claim he was open in single coverage the whole third period [typical yao fans], some claim htat he was doubled most of the time, and only open and not passed to a few times[I think FB] , and rabid Yao fan Yetti claims that he was standing in the high post and not getting into position. A very Rashomon like problem overall. I only had radio tonight so I can't tell you the answer; my earllier posts were in reference not regarding tonight in particular, jsut the other games I saw this year.
