You're picking out what were admittedly his best and worst games in the tournament. What about the rest of the games, where we can get a more balanced look at him? What about his 15-point game against China, where he changed the momentum of the game when he came in and helped Greece to an easy +30 points victory? What about his 11-point game against France, a team full of NBA players (Diaw, Pietrus, Petro, Turiaf) who get much more playing time in the NBA than him? His 15-point game against Lithuania? (Macijauskas, Kleiza, Songaila) His 11-point game against Turkey? (Ilyasova) You're right, Brazil is hardly a powerhouse, which makes it even more puzzling to me that players like Barbosa (4 points in 1/6 shooting, with Span closing him down) and Varejao (0 points) are considered established players in the NBA. They seemed more like a joke to me in that game. But I would be wrong to judge Barbosa only from what I saw in that game, wouldn't I? I was the first to say that the Greece-USA game would be bad for Spanoulis. I think suddenly everyone's expectations rised to the sky and when Span couldn't fulfill these extreme expectations, people got separated into 2 camps, the "Span is useless" one and the "Span is the God" one. No, he's not T-Mac or KB or AI or Steve Nash or whatever; but he's not useless either. He doesn't deserve to be a starter, but he equally doesn't deserve to be sitting at the far end of the bench.
Big words... The greek championship is possibly the best basketball championship in Europe. As for your T-mac and Rybos comment: In 1996, Dominique Wilkins with some of the best greek (Alvertis, Economou) and european (Vrankovic) players as well as greek legend Yannakis (now coach of the Greek NT) coached by arguably the best european coach ever (Bozidar Malkovic) STILL didn't manage to win the greek championship. BTW, I know you were just exaggerating but it is important (for the sake of this conversation) to acknowledge that the euro-nba gap is not THAT big and the players know it as well. A lot of people seem to think that Span should be grateful just to even be on the bench of an NBA team and the truth is he doesnt see it that way. I'm not saying he deserves more simply because he thinks he does but I'm trying to say that we shouldnt turn this into an atiitude issue because he really does have one of the best attitudes towards the game...albeit a slightly bit overconfident
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl//4494120.html Could that be read as a don't need him, send him along his way, I don't care?
Thats how I would read it. Lets see how much VSpan plays from here, if he doesn't play a lick then I would say that VSpan Deported thread was pretty prophetic and he'll be gone this off season. JVG not playing VSpan is the most likely scenario. JVG is going to first find minutes for Bonzi and Snyder and unless he changes his mind about VSpan running the point then VSpan looks to be the odd man out. Also don't count on JVG to take pity on poor Spanoulis, remember that Milwaukee game when Novak had his dad, family and friends urging JVG to play him to no avail. Pity and sentimentality are not Van Gundys strong suits.
If V-Span returns to Europe, he'll regret it for the rest of his life. Chances are, he won't get another legit shot in the NBA after that. They don't give out NBA contracts like candy on Halloween, you know. He has said that it was his dream to play in the NBA. Well act like it, buddy! Despite what you VSOFs and V-Span himself think, he has not earned anything in the league yet. No NBA official (on a contending team) in their right mind would grant V-Span automatic minutes based on his accomplishments thus far. Therefore, the only way he deserves minutes is if he displays a skill set that can help the team now. He hasn't done that, so he belongs on the bench. That's the sad truth.
What are you talking about? An old 36 year old Dominique Wilkins won the Euroleague Championship in 96. The gap is still huge. The best European players come to the stats. How can anyone think the Euroleague is even close when guys like Michael Battista, Trajan Langdan, Michael Pietrus, and even old man Robert Pack are superstars in Europe? No one remember's Telfair's older half brother. He couldn't get drafted and he went over to Europe and starting dropping like 20 a game.
He has had two bad turnover games in his short stint with the Rockets during the regular season. Both of those games were blowout wins for us where VSpan was mopping up and fooling around with the behind the back type passes and he racked up some turnovers. If you take away those two games, which VSpan readily acknowledges he was trying to entertain the fans, and look at his stat line, it's not nearly so bad. Turnovers are relative to what else you bring to the game. Dwayne Wade is a high turnover player. Jason Kidd, Tinsley, T.J. Ford, Iverson, they're all high turnover. Magic Johnson was a high turnover player and it wasn't until the latter half of his career that he learned how to shoot adequately. But it was all the other stuff he did. He ran that break like nobody's business. He threaded the needle over and over for layups. He ran the PnR and got to the rim, to the line, or he got a teammate a layup. Turnovers are relative to the rest of the game. VSpan has always been high turnover but he's always wound up starting for every team he played on and he wound up being an important component in the makeup of his team, and he has always wound up a crowd favorite because of his scrappy play and the intangibles he brings to the table. If he turns out to be a third of the player Magic Johnson is, he will be better than what we are running out there now.
every team has 'championship aspirations.' this team is NOT going to win a championship with rafer alston logging close to 40 minutes a game. make no mistake about that. you speak as if putting vspan into the rotation is going to result in some huge dropoff, but i just cant see that happening given how horrible rafer alston has been playing.
With Rafer logging big minutes, we beat the Mavs, the Spurs, Utah, San Antonio, etc. He does a good job running the fast breaks when we get them, he takes care of the ball, and he usually sets up the offense early in the shot clock. He's far from perfect, but our team does well with him running the show.
Im fine with Rafer starting, he does run the team well. I'm not fine with him being the only point guard on the team, logging more minutes than he can handle. 1. win against Mavs came early in the season before they got on a roll. we know what happened the second time around. 2. win against the spurs: 35 minutes. which i think should be the peak for him, not the trough. 3. win against utah: blowout where there was no real need to play him that long. but i agree, those were quality wins. unfortunately, for every example of rafer logging big minutes and us winning, there are far more of us losing. go back over the game logs, and i think you'll find that when rafer's minutes are kept at 35 and under, the team is more successful. again, its possible that this just reflects the win since he wouldnt have to play in garbage time, but since there hasn't been much garbage time for guys like novak and vspan all season, i dont think thats the case.
If American players are so superior how come we can't win the Olympics with are best players out there? Stop believing your own press and let results guide your judgment. Geez!
Hmmm, think anything may skew your results? * When some starters are injured, do other starters have to log more minutes in a game where we're now under-manned? * In blow-out wins, are starters pulled before they log a lot of minutes? e.g, in the 12 games that Rafer has logged less than 35, we won 8 for 67%. In the 9 games where TMac played and logged fewer than 35, we won 7 games for 78%. You want to play TMac less now?
your first *: why would yao ming going down affect rafer alston's minutes at all? its not like rafer has to log extra minutes at the 5. and its definitely not because rafer is good enough that he can step up and pick up the scoring/rebounding slack given yao's absence. your second *: im pretty sure i already acknowledged this possibility, but ill clarify. when was the last time you saw the rockets put in bench players, even with a big lead, even in the final minutes of the game? i distinctly recall one game where we had a sizable lead that was in no danger, yet all of our starters were still on the floor. and on the rockets, garbage time is usually only 1 or 2 minutes. that doesn't account for a drop in rafer's minutes from 40+ to 35 and under. and while i'd love for tmac to play the entire game if his stamina is up for it, it would be incredibly unwise to play tmac extended minutes for the whole season and then expect to ride him to victory in the playoffs. so yes, i would like to see tmac logging as few minutes as possible if this team is still capable of winning in order to keep him fresh for the playoffs. similarly with rafer, although im going to take a wild guess and say that rafer logging big minutes is a LOT less vital to this team's chances of winning that tmac...
I don't have a huge quarrell with the playing time Spanoulis has been given. He hasn't looked real good in games and who knows how good or bad he played in practices. I do think that a few lopsided games that Van Gundy should have put Spanoulis in for more than just the last minute.
That's simply wrong. Magic's shooting was better in each of his first six seasons than it was in each of his last seven. He improved as a 3-point shooter, but his overall percentage got progressively worse during his career. Look it up. Regardless, I'm not saying turnovers are the only stat you'd look at in a point guard. Assist/turnover ratio is much more indicative of a PG's ability to distribute without turning it over.
Cute, Rafer doesn't play the 5. You're honestly trying to claim that remaining starters minutes don't increase when other starters are lost to injury? Rafer's minutes only increase by 0.5 pg when Yao's out, but in 6 of the 7 games that TMac missed, Rafer averaged 4.5 minutes over his season avg. You really missed it didn't you? Your logic is flawed and data proves it. Do I really need to say that TMac may be our best player, yet when he plays fewer than 35 mpg we win 78%, a significantly higher % than our overall, and signifivantly higher than when Rafer plays less than 35 minutes. So using your logic, we SHOULD play TMac less to improve our winning % and Rafer's a better player So there are reasons for this that you're apparently missing. In blow-outs they will log fewer minutes and not just by being pulled at the end, and when we're losing, our starters will (on average) log more minutes.
No, you are wrong. Because in the early part of Magic's career, 90% of his shots were layups and dunks........because he DID NOT have a good jump shot. His percentages went down because he developed his outside jump shot to the point where he could actually use it in games and he started using it to help keep the floor spread and keep defenders from totally laying off him and playing him for the drive.
Something tells me you might be exaggerating just WEEEEEEEE bit, jopatmc. Ninety percent? I give you facts and you return with hyperbole. Are you a lawyer?
