I want to major in business

As an i-banking alum, I agree with NIKE. Unless compensation increased drastically over the last few years, that chart is high. Also, though it has been mentioned, 8-8 is definitely the minimum. My average time to make it home was closer to 12, with at least 2 days a week working past 2 am. Also, keep in mind that this includes working on Sunday, and at least 2 weeks of the month, some, though generally minimal work on Saturday. In short, 70 hour work weeks were usually welcomed.

But, keep in mind, that there is no better fully immersing experience than i-banking with a bulge bracket bank. You get paid a crap-load (though not as much as has been suggested in this thread, but close), are compensated in other ways (dinners, car services, the fact that since you are never home you are forced to save that enormous salary you make!), you get trained better than you ever thought possible, and you open doors for whatever you want to do after your analyst program...either continue in banking at be making over $1 million a year by your early 30s, moving on to private equity, hedge funds, starting your own thing...whatever.

And, to top it all off, stop pretending like there are a lot of better career paths to riches. Yes, maybe there are marginally better options (othordontics), but all "professional" careers require a lot of work, in one way or another, whether its years of school followed by years of 24+ hour resident shifts, the dreaded first (and second and third) year of law school at a top program followed by the bar and grueling hours at a big law shop, etc. Basically, get ready to sacrifice, regardless of path chosen...

How does this relate to classes and majors? You could just as easily major in history as in business and come out and do i-banking and be successful. Taking the right classes definitely helps, and more than anything helps you get the job, but you'll certainly find that it would be much more useful to have the job first and then take the classes...but you can't do that. So take some useful classes, and take some classes that interest you. I'd highly suggest at least a couple of accounting classes, and if you find you like it, a few classes beyond just beginner level. Same with finance. This is for the "corporate finance" route. Take at least one entreprenuerism class...if I had to go back to school, I'd have taken a whole lot more, but definitely take at least one. And take some classes outside of business as well. And learn to take leadership roles in group projects. Learn how to make decisions, and quickly. Learn how to look like you are 100% confident in everything you're saying even if you're not sure if you're right or not, and then learn how to be sure you're right.

Oh, and thick skin can help...but this is life more than one specific vocation. All big firms have a lot of politics involved and many have assholes you have to work with. I-banking probably more than most, primarily because it really is a greed driven profession, and greed leads to the dark side.

 

[rant]Banks are getting hammered with the problems at Bear Stearns et al. Formerly superstar hedge funds are getting crushed by the market of late (who isn't?), especially the quant based ones -- basically a major statistical decoupling. Goldman's lost 25% of its market cap in about 6 weeks. That's real.

You have to remember, bonuses are just that -- bonuses. They're rewards for success. When the market is jumping 10, 15, 20%, and M&A is as hot as its been lately, bonuses will follow. If the market levels out like it has (and right now, it's all in the financial sector), bonuses will follow. On the upside for a banker, the hours will level off a bit as well.

There are rumors of banks chopping off incoming analyst classes or slowing recruiting. I don't think we're in for a 2002 type year, where firms reneged on offers, but I'd expect bonuses to at a minimum level off, and probably come down.

Lost in this thread on the greatness of investment banking -- beyond how difficult the jobs are to land -- it's an agonizing thing if you don't truly love structure, details, and finance. I'm passionate for all 3, and it still wasn't enough to me. I turned down multiple banking offers because of the limits of the flexibility in the industry from an intellectual standpoint. There's a reason the book was entitled Monkey Business. If you ask me, it's an industry asking on many levels to be commoditized and/or offshored at the analyst/associate levels. This has little to no impact in terms of entering the industry today, as it's not going to happen in the short term.

I by no means think poorly of bankers who know what they're getting themselves into and why they're doing it. As one MD told me, (this is offer in hand, recruiting me to join his particular group, mind you), "We're going to squeeze blood from a stone out of you for 2 years, pay you ridiculous amounts of money in the mean time, and then you'll have a world of opportunities available for even more money and less hours." The other opportunities being hedge funds and private equity shops.

I spent the better part of 3 weeks weighing the investment banking option against what I ultimately chose. Ultimately, do something that can keep you interested and working with good people. I decided the lack of creative control or ingenuity at the analyst levels of banking was unappealing.

You can probably guess my career of choice if I'm coming out of the business school and chose not to do banking.

[/rant]

 

I recently graduated from busines school. I double majored in Marketing and Management.

It wasn't til the middle of my junior year I realized that the MEDICAL STAFFING industry was so huge. Right now, it's very competitive, but we're about 2 or 3 years into the Baby Boomers retiring period. This means there's a shortage in most medical staff positions...especially nurses. This shortage is going to keep growing in the next decade. The more the medical staff shortage grows, the more opportunities for medical staff recruiters.

Basically, you find clients (hospitals/medical facilities) and candidates (medical staff applicants). Find candidates for your clients and vice versa. I'm not sure about the numbers now, but for every nurse you place in a hospital, you can earn up to $15,000 each. Personally, I'm trying to get into the nurse recruiting business.

Right now, I'm looking for a job in the HR department of a nearby hospital (I live in the Sugar Land area if anyone can help me out with a job...haha).

My cousin in Cali does recruiting for physical therapists. He travels overseas twice a year for vacation. Just have fun in school, and keep your eyes open. You're still young. DON'T SETTLE on a career just because it makes good money...make sure you love/are interested in what you do.

 

hours wouldn't level off...you might actually work harder to win that business...depends on the MD. Also, bonuses will definitely level off, but from an analyst/associate perspective, you'd still be getting PAID. The problem will be getting the job.

right and wrong. good bankers are incredibly smart and incredibly creative - occasionally too creative (Enron). What's more, depending on position in the bank, there is opportunity to actually apply theory.

but to ignore the dog and pony show that is 50%+ of the work would be a big mistake. but again, this is the same for a LOT of jobs out there. Academia is probably the obvious exception.

As for commoditization, there is no reason some guy in India, or computer program for that matter, can't do the job of analyst and to some extents, associates...you're right. But of course, you can't bring the invisible guy behind a computer screen in India to meetings to start to build client relationships....which is important.

I give up....what are you doing that has given you creative control out of b-school? The b-school start-up?

 

I'm guessing management consulting.

I know the market is in a slump right now, but that should be remedied by the end of the year or so, right? I'm more interested in(/worried about) the commoditization speedbump than the current market conditions.

Jay, do you mind if I email you a few questions? If not, do you use your bbs email?

 

It's going to be pretty much impossible to get in with one of the big boy investment bank firms like Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley at UH.

My suggestion would be to get all of your BS core classes out of the way at community college, transfer to UH, and major in accounting and get in the PPA program. You'll get a masters and be CPA exam eligible in 5 yrs, and if you have 3.2 GPA, some work experience, and you know how to talk to recruiters and interviewers you will be set. You can get an internship in your senior yr with a big 4 firm, I know for a fact they are paying 50,000 annually (about 4200 a month) + overtime + 5000 signing bonus for interns in audit and tax, advisory probably more. When you graduate you start full time and get another bonus. You'll work a ton during busy season, but after a few yrs, and you have Big 4 on your resume, you can write your own ticket supposedly.

Accounting or MIS+Accounting is going to be surest path to getting a solid job going to UH.

 

I think email through the BBS works for me...

if you really wanted to do some investment banking, there are some small banks/m&a shops in Houston, where it would still be hard to get a job out of UH, but the circumstances might be right....

http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/
www.gulfstargroup.com
www.a-w-d.net/intro.htm
www.smhgroup.com/
www.crutchfieldcapital.com

just to name a few...there are more than you'd think, though a lot aren't in the analyst hiring business...

 

I don't disagree at all -- I didn't mean to undermine in any way just how bright many bankers are, especially as you climb the chain.

But let's assume a standard industry group, year 1 (or 2) analyst.

How much does the average analyst bring to a client meeting besides a face? From what I was told through the processes and by friends currently doing it...speaking in client meetings is pretty rare. Granted, it's a dog & pony show, and maybe the faces are needed.

Oh no, I'm too risk averse for something like that. But consulting (at least at my firm) gives a lot of creative control with regard to process within a given study, and a lot of collaborative control in terms of choosing those assignments to begin with. Like I said, dimensions that were important to me that may or may not be the case for someone else.

 

pretty true, but it slowly evolves into something. by the end of your second year, you'd have some good relationships with some corp. officers...

 

I agree with you on that one. Tulexan, you are right about living the baller life as an investment banker but it is not that easy. If you want to do investment banking, make sure you keep your GPA above a 3.6 at all times, and go to a really good business school.

I am doing MPA(Masters in Professional Accounting) at McCombs and I think Finance, Accounting, or MIS are the majors you should go for if you are going into business. however, that is just my opinion and any business field is good if you are good in it. Another thing is that too many people are doing business these days. If you go into business, make sure you start thinking what sets you apart from the rest from the beginning of freshmen year. Try to get an internship, well paid or even unpaid, in the field you plan on going to and just build your resume any way possible.

good luck.

 

Use your on-campus recruiting system? I'm sure UC-Berkeley gets plenty of companies recruiting from there.

 

Goldman is generally considered the smartest guys in the room, and most likely control the world, but recent failures in their hedge fund division (-26% this year, and a down year last year) make me challenge that assumption.

We have a joke around my firm, saying that Goldman has a market neutral hedge fund strategy- They have the ability of losing money in any market condition.

I actually heard about 6 months ago, that Goldman stopped hiring. These guys can usually anticipate market slowdowns as we are seeing now.

Another thing to think about when considering a Wall Street career is that the industry is cyclical. The market has boom years and then recession years. If you are just an average employee in a recession year, you might get laid off. So thus job security is not the best. This is especially true for investment banking as merger and acquisition deals dry up when liquidity is tight. This is occurring right now. So it might be even harder to get a job in IB, since many people might be let go in a year or two. It happened back in 2001, and it is just a cycle of intense joy followed by intense misery.

For alot of you guys who aren't top graduates, you can enter a Wall Street type career through proprietary trading. This is usually where you put up anywhere between 2K-10K at a firm, and they teach you how to trade in the markets with your own capital. Its mostly day trading I believe, but some star traders have come out of these ranks. You can find alot of these jobs on Craigslist Finance section. Just do your research and find a more reputable one, since alot of them have a Boiler Room reputation to them.

 

TMac#1 must be one of my students...

Seriously, if you (or anyone else) is interested in the PPA at UH, email me through the board and I will help you out. Can't really argue with a 100% placement rate...

 

Would it be possible for an economics major to go the same route as a business/finance major? I'm wondering because it's extremely difficult just to get into the undergrad business school at berkeley. Also, would a double major in business/econ and a foreign language (i'm chinese) be helpful at all? Thanks.

 

It depends on what your career goals in business are. If you want to join a investment bank or a hedge fund and do equity or fund research, economics is a good degree. But if you want to do actual investment banking (merger and acquisition type stuff) you will need a finance degree most often. If you want to become a trader or investment manager, you can use an economics or finance degree.

In all honesty, I think an economics degree is the most practical of degrees if you are wanting to do some sort of equity research, trading or investment management. Reason is economics is the ultimate driver behind all industries and companies. If you look at job listings for alot of hedge funds, and other private equity industries, they usually want a finance or economics major. Economics is great degree, b/c it helps you understand the whole marketplace, then a somewhat more narrow finance degree which will help you just evaluate a company or sector.

Berkeley is a great school. You already have a huge advantage over 95% of other college graduates out there. Use your career services and get internships and you will be on your way to a solid career.

 

Just a question to all the I bankers on the board. I know the recruiting process is crazy for it, and very few people make it (I didn't make it past the first round). What is the point of paying these large salaries when ultimately only a very small percentage of their advice will actually help the firm beat the market over the long term?