Guenter: All I want out of life is to be a monkey of moderate intelligence who wears a suit. That's why I've decided to transfer to business school! Farnsworth: Nooo!
Exactly. Investment Banks try to lure you in by having you work in Operations saying that you will be able to move over to Investment Banking eventually, but it doesn't work like that. If you go into Operations you will most likely never go over to Investment Banking or trading with that firm. As far as getting your foot in the door, talk to alumni. If you go to a big school chances are that there is at least someone from your school at one of the firms. They may not be doing what you want to do, but they may know someone who does what you want to do, or at the very least can point you in the right direction and give you direct contacts to get in touch with.
Hell no its not that easy. Dental school admission is highly competitive. Ortho residencies are even harder to get into. You need to be one of the top students in your dschool class plus rape the boards to have a shot at ortho.
The barriers to entry to Orthodontists is Dental school admissions, then Ortho school admissions. They limit the admissions to both to keep prices high. Ortho school in particular is very hard to get into. However, the job itself is highly lucrative. My cousin's path was this: 1. He went to a smaller state school on purpose. He was driven to be an Orthodontist from a young age, so he planned that he could go to an easier school, but get good grades. He graduated with a 4.0 from a smaller state school. While school matters, a 4.0 is what most people see, so he was able to go to the UT Dental school in San Antonio with a 4.0. 2. He made very good grades at Dental school. 3. He became a Dentist and practiced for about 2-3 years. He made from 100-150K a year during this time. 4. With his strong grades and work experience he was accepted into a spot at an Ortho school in St. Louis. 5. With his money he had saved from being a Dentist paying for most of his Ortho school, he was able to graduate without large debts. 6. Since he didn't have large outstanding debts he was able to get a large enough loan to purchase an already existing practice. 7. Paying all of his employees, loans, expenses, he clears about 40-50 K a month. He works Monday - Wednesday, and half a day Thursday, but he is about to have to work 5 days a week because he is opening a second office.
The biggest advice I ever learn, and yes, they DO NOT TEACH YOU THIS IN SCHOOL is to learn how to WORK FOR YOURSELF NO MATTER WHAT.
From what i've read and heard, it seems internships are absolutely vital in determining your career path in business, possibly even more so than what specific major you choose. i'm starting my second year at uc berkeley, and want to get into business, possibly investment banking (although i've heard so many horror stories -- is it really that bad???). Does anyone have advice on internship hunting? much appreciated.
Any position that you get in finance at an investment bank (trading, research, investment banking) will require long hours. If you are planning on working a 40 hour week then working on Wall Street is not the industry you should go into. Starting out, expect to work at least 8AM to 8PM. It's not as bad as you think because when you work late a lot of firms will take care of you (i.e. pay for dinner, give you car service home, etc). If you want to make big bucks you are going to have to do the time. As for internships, Berkeley is a great school and I'm sure as tons of alumni at all of the investment banks. I would go to your career center and ask for contact information for the alumni at those investment banks. Get in touch with all of them and build your network at the banks. Don't just send banks and contacts a cover letter and a resume and expect them to get back to you. These people are very busy and you need to stay on top of things. Keep on calling/emailing until they get back to you. Also, I would talk to some of the more well respected finance professors and ask them if they know anyone. Usually finance professors are former professionals and a lot do consulting work on the side. Start early! If you can get a good internship at a bank and do well, you are pretty much set for the next 4-5 years at least.
I graduated with a finance degree. Had five internships, Citi, twice at JP Morgan, Hyatt resort (accounting department), and a small hedge fund before I graduated. In the end, during my last semester I took an insurance class, fell in love with it and accepted an underwriting position in the public sector. I plan on eventually doing something with the capital markets, but I know insurance will be the vehicle (float) for any future venture. Another reason why I chose insurance, Buffett. I read all the BRK annual letters and since 1/2 usually deals with insurance, it seemed interesting. He talked about his underwriter Ajit Jain, and for some reason I wanted that position. Either way, I am glad I chose this route, I get to stay in the same city (with my family), with the same friends, and that is priceless! I Would never want to do anything with investment banking, I don't have the huge ego or the passion to live in a city like New York. But the real reason, my last semester I attended a Goldman Sachs mixer and some kid asked, "so how can I get into investment banking?" The answer, first a smirk by the speaker and then he said "Your not from Columbia, Yale, or Harvard, I don't think you can." I was shocked with the answer, but I found my answer, if I ever pursued a career in IB, I would have to deal with all these stiffs comparing the labels of my ties and trying to "one-up" each, one by one. That's not something I am wired to do. But, don't let that push you away from pursuing any career, just my personal opinion. My plans are to get my masters, while working on my CFA. Masters takes 2 years, and CFA a little under 3, so I will try to make it where I could get both within the next 4 years. After that, start a partnership with a good buddy I met in my senior year in college. I wish you the best! choosing your major is tough, and business is too general. If you want to go the business route, I recommend that you specialize, some examples include: risk management, sports management, insurance (PnC or health), actuary (I think this is one of the biggest secret majors, it is a guarantee, accounting is always solid, finance I have a bias. Good Luck!
If you think those are anywhere near banking hours, you got another thing coming. The salary numbers you posted are closer to all-in than bonus. And the industry may very well be close to hitting a major roadbump.
This chart is soo sick Is competition for these positions crazy? Alot of business majors I know have 4.0s, so I'm guessing the good ole boy network is still in effect and you have to know people to differentiate yourself and get a position an analyst spot at these places.
I never said those were banking hours, I said any finance position at an investment bank will have a minimum of 8AM-8PM. Investment Banking hours are closer to 9AM - 3AM. Those are bonus numbers, not total compensation. Most first year analysts have salaries around 60K.
I know for a fact that the chart is accurate. A first year analyst at a bulge bracket firm will take home around 150K. Some will get higher, some will get lower, but that is around what they will get.
First Year all-in gets on the order of 150 (closer to 140, but sure). Base pay year 1 is 65-70K, with a 5-10 sign on on top of that. Your chart would mean a first year would take home 180+. Not the case. Further, I can guarantee you Morgan Stanley is not paying less than Goldman. And if your chart is doing tiers based on compensation, Evercore, Greenhill, and Blackstone would come in above "Tier 1".
I am no expert when it comes to I-Banks but I would think Goldman is generally considered to have the "smartest guys in the room" edited for my own stupidity
Goldman and Morgan are generally considered the top 2 large investment banks around, though in recent years Goldman has pulled away. I say Morgan Stanley wouldn't underpay relative to Goldman because a.) they compete for the same pool b.) it's a machismo thing. These are analysts -- straight out of undergrad. At a minimum, double it for an MBA.
NIKE, what do you mean by this? Just curious...I'm getting ready for recruiting and am trying to gather as much as possible. Also...you're a business student at UT, correct?
