I think this would be a great trade for both Toronto and Rox

One game? JYD is a solid 10/10 role player. So if you're trying to say he got lucky in that game, it just ain't so. You tried to say he would rot on the bench after Fizer, I proved you wrong. Corie Blount, who started for them, score 0 pts in 21 mins. So yeah I definitely don't see points for Jerome there. Eddie Curry's gonna start, AD is the backup C. Chandler's gonna start with JYD as backup. I don't see any minute issues there.

How did I throw out the issue when coming to Cato?

How did I not answer stupidmoniker's question? He asked for wingmen list I gave him the list. Unless you were talking about being 2nd/3rd option. Let's see:

Carmelo Anthony
Ron Artest
Ricky Davis
Michael Finley
Richard Hamilton
Matt Harpring
Corey Maggette
Jamal Mashburn
Michael Redd
Jason Richardson
Jerry Stackhouse
Jason Terry
Richard Jefferson
Eddie Jones
Shawn Marion
Quentin Richardson
Glenn Robinson
Wally Szczerbiak
Keith Van Horn
Antawn Jamison


And if you haven't figured out that Cat doesn't think he's the 3rd option as him, you need to attend the same bball 101 class as him. In case you haven't noticed, he took far more shots than Yao last season and he IS taking more shots this season. Last season you can at least argue Yao's a rook, this season there's just no excuse. So 3rd option indeed.

 

And btw, Steve is the better player hands down, but AW is the far superior PG.

 

Shareef Abdur-Rahim 1st option
Carmelo Anthony 1st option
Ray Allen 1st option
His 03-04 stats are not on nba.com for some reason
it is because he has not played yet this season

Ron Artest 2nd option
Kobe Bryant 2nd option
Vince Carter 1st option
Baron Davis PG and 2nd option
Ricky Davis 2nd option
Michael Finley
03-04 DAL 18 18 37.9 .417 .354 .849 1.20 3.70 4.80 3.1 1.39 .50 1.17 1.40 15.8
Kevin Garnett PF and first option
Richard Hamilton 2nd option
Allen Iverson 1st option
LeBron James PG and 1st option
Andrei Kirilenko 1st option
Corey Maggette 1st option
Marbury PG and 1st option
Jamal Mashburn 1st option
Tracy McGrady 1st option
Paul Pierce 1st option
Michael Redd 1st option
Jason Richardson 1st option
Jerry Stackhouse 1st option
Jason Terry 2nd option

This is far from a complete list too. I missed a few going through. Damn Cat's talents are unique, I'm converted.

Like I said, the only thing Cat has over the average SF/2guards in this league is his contract. [/B][/QUOTE]

Umm, the only player that you listed that met the criteria was Michael Finley. None of the rest was the third option on their team and some of them were not even swingmen. I guess if you are only like one other player in the NBA, that does make you kind of unique. If you want to compare him to players that are the 1st option on their teams, then you should use his numbers from 2001-02, when he was likewise the first option.

 

Shareef Abdur-Rahim 1st option
getting FAR better stats

Carmelo Anthony 1st option

Over Dre Miller? Sure whatever

Ray Allen 1st option
His 03-04 stats are not on nba.com for some reason
it is because he has not played yet this season

Ron Artest 2nd option
getting better stats

Kobe Bryant 2nd option
gets more pts with a far more talented team

Vince Carter 1st option
getting FAR better stats

Baron Davis PG and 2nd option
sure plays like a PG, NOT
getting FAR better stats

Ricky Davis 2nd option
Behind Lebron and Z

Michael Finley
03-04 DAL 18 18 37.9 .417 .354 .849 1.20 3.70 4.80 3.1 1.39 .50 1.17 1.40 15.8

Kevin Garnett PF and first option
Undersized 4, more suitbale 3
I hardly think we need to compare Cat with KG do we?

Richard Hamilton 2nd option
Getting better stats

Allen Iverson 1st option
Self explanatory

LeBron James PG and 1st option
getting far better stats

Andrei Kirilenko 1st option
2nd Option and first year at it too

Corey Maggette 1st option
Over Brand and Q? Even with Brand out he's 2nd

Marbury PG and 1st option
See Baron Davis

Jamal Mashburn 1st option
simply getting FAR better stats

Tracy McGrady 1st option
getting FAR better stats

Paul Pierce 1st option
getting FAR better stats

Michael Redd 1st option
getting FAR better stats

Jason Richardson 1st option
Are you serious?

Jerry Stackhouse 1st option
better player, plain and simple

Jason Terry 2nd option


It astounds me that some here still thinks Cat plays like he's the 3rd option on this team. Either by MPG or shots per game, that just don't hold water.

 

mobley is the third option ming is first francis is second, it is not there fault they play with a center who likes to pass. Reading your post, I can tell your not that bright when it comes to bball. You don't even no what a swing man is.

 

Why don't you actually read my posts before you lump me into some generalized category.

Just because I think this is a ****ty deal does not mean I think Cat is a badass. I know you're in this hate mood after being frustrated with the team these past few years but quit putting words in my mouth and assumming ****.

 

I didn't say he got "lucky". I know full well what he's capable of. I also know that he's an overpriced career backup who isn't any better than Fizer. For 4-6 mil per year, he should be in the rotation somewhere attempting to earn his paycheck.

How did I throw out the issue when coming to Cato?

look back how you bash Cat to promote others despite cat having far superior stats. Yet with Cato you take the opposite tact. Make up your mind.

How did I not answer stupidmoniker's question? He asked for wingmen list I gave him the list. Unless you were talking about being 2nd/3rd option.

wow you finally learned not to have tunnel vision and finish reading the question. I know you were just dying to throw a list out there of people that have similar stats as Cat, even though no one cares about that list and it wasn't asked for.


And if you haven't figured out that Cat doesn't think he's the 3rd option as him, you need to attend the same bball 101 class as him. In case you haven't noticed, he took far more shots than Yao last season and he IS taking more shots this season. Last season you can at least argue Yao's a rook, this season there's just no excuse. So 3rd option indeed.

yeah fga is the end all be all stat for determining that. The o is running through Mobes all the time ... riiiight. You can try to whine about it all you want, but he IS the 3rd option, and your list only includes a couple of swingmen who are 3rd option, of which are significantly overpriced compared to Mobes.

 

it's obvious the hou untouchables are cato, francis, ming, and mobley.

the rox have far too many forwards but not any genuine starters... i hope they keep boki.

 

What does MPG have to do with which option he is on offense? Shots per minute is a much better indicator, and Mobley is well behind both Francis and Yao in that category. Of course he has more shots per game than Yao, because he plays almost half a quarter more. Even in six more minutes, he only takes 1 more official FGA than Yao, and Yao actually shoots more times per game, but he gets fouled alot, so some of his shots are not ruled FGAs. Cat has quite obviously accepted his role as third option, and is flourishing in it. The only player that you listed that is in a situation that is similar to Mobley's is Michael Finley.

Now that that is out of the way, I don't know why you are comparing him to players like Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Vince Carter and Tracy MacGrady. Those are guys in the top ten players in the league. No one is disputing that they are better than Cat. The thing is, they are better than everybody. Being worse than Kevin Garnett does not mean you are a mediocre player. If there was some way for us to trade Cat for Kevin Garnett, Vince Carter, etc. then we would do it. However, this thread was about trading him for guys like Morris Peterson, and when people said the Rox were getting ripped off, you said we way overrated him. What relevence does the superiority of a bunch of number one option players like these guys or SAR etc. have to Cat being a much better player than Alvin Williams.

 

Sorry, but Snow < Alvin in my book. AW does most of what you said, but what he isn't that good at running an offense imo. He's a decent rotation guy, but overpriced and overhyped (on this board anyway). He's a ward/childs(when he was good) type of pg. Hardly anyting to write home about. Definitely not worth making this trade over. Worth trying to pry from Toronto? Maybe. Better fit for us than Mobes? Possibly, if we move SF to sg. But moving SF to sg most likely isnt happening, and no AW deal is most likely ever going to be discussed, for various reasons.

And AW should start for the raps if healthy imo. Rose is better at sf/sg than pg.

 

BTW, when Cat was the number one option on the team (for half the season, nuber two for half), he scored 21.7 ppg. Right now, that would rank him at number 10 in the league, just ahead of Kobe Bryant.

 

Productive SG's/swingmen in this league can be found on a number of teams, but that doesn't mean you undervalue on you have, especially when he has a good contract. Mobes can be stupid at times, but he is productive, and that makes him valuable.

At this point, I'd prefer to offer Francis up for a great return package, or even a package of two or three highly productive players.

The original trade proposed in this thread doesn't help the Rockets out at all.

 

Who the hell is Alvin Williams?

 

JYD isn't better than Fizer, that's your opinion, enough said. He's an expensive backup granted, Cato's even more so.

Uh, none of the other players actually played 42 MPG to get their stats. It is one thing to say that Cat isn't an efficient player (which in this case proves to be true) compared to the others who got similar or better stats in less mins, it is another to say Cato WILL get 18 or more boards in 48 mins, because you just don't know if it's gonna happen. Hell, if a 5 year old made to the NBA, played 30 seconds, had 2 boards just luckily bounce into his hands, is he gonna get 96 boards a game? To put it in laymen's terms, Cat's efficiency isn't great is a FACT, Cato's per 48 mins is a SPECULATION. Plain and Simple.

Yes I'm sorry I missed that the first time, I'll endeavour to do better next time master. No one cared for that list? No one wanted it? Stupidmoniker asked for it and he got it. And no I didn't have the list compiled all along and hidden with my stash.

Mobley isn't the 2nd option? I swear to god I can find stretches of like 15 mins where Yao doesn't get the ball. I would gladly accept that as isolated incidents if it hadn't HAPPENED WITH FREQUENCY THIS SEASON AND THE LAST. Of course I'm gonna hear the typical response that oh he didn't have position or oh he's double/triple teamed. And I tell you that's just not the case.

 

You asked for a list, I gave you the list. I tried to show wingmen are a dime a dozen, you made me compile a list to do it, so you got it. But the bottom line is that some Rockets fans simply over value Cat, who's a wingmen therefore a dime a dozen. I'm not saying he doesn't have value I'm just saying be objective about it.

And no I just don't see Cat being "better" than Alvin Williams. If we're gonna use Alvin Williams' injured stats we might as well end this comparison right here. AW might not be as proficient a scorer, but he gets more assists, run the team MUCH better, plays better D and brings veteran experience. Which is not to say he's the PG of your dreams, but he IS an upgrade over Moochie and Steve at running the team.

To start, the Rockets problems are multi folded. There's no quick fix solution that'll fix everything. If there were I wish Yao starts to play like a man and Steve just get smart in a hurry. But since that's not happening you address the problem another way. Get a decent PG back and then try to get a 4.

Your other argument is that AW is expensive, but by trading Cato away the Rockets are getting one bad contract but getting rid of one as well.