You know, I never thought about it like that, but I think you're right. I lived in Houston for 24 years and never thought twice about moving until better opportunities started popping up career-wise. Now that I'm gone, I wouldn't go back. Go figure... ------------------ I got nothin'.
i am the drunk guy and you are the dunk guy fair enough...anyway i guess you are right different strokes for different folks... i am in houston happy about that and i can watch the rockets and dont have to go to humperdinks just to see it on some obscure tv in the corner..you are in dallas and you get all the things you like there.. good for me and you...i suppose ------------------ I think people are forgetting that we are the rockets... WE DONT REBUILD...WE RELOAD....remember that..
I guess you can really first sort of split cities based on cultural factors and physical factors. In my mind, except for San Fran, the big western cities are all pretty similar culturally. Pheonix, Dallas, Houston, Denver... to me they are all suburban-oriented metropolis's filled with mostly new residents. I would throw LA, San Diego and Orange County in with this group too, though parts if LA don't fit the mold quite as well as the others. Of these I do think Houston and LA probably most celebrate diversity and are most international in flavor. San Francisco and also other Bay Area cities (except maybe San Jose which is rapidily moving towards the other Metropolis's above) are very different culturally however. Take the cultural acceptance (maybe even embracement) of a big Northeastern city without the bluntness and cliqueiness. If I were single, SF might be my ideal place to spend a few years. Of course the whole Bay Area is ungodly expensive (think Manhatton expensesive within 45 miles of San Jose or SF) and there is no way the salaries can make up this difference. But if home ownership isn't a big deal for you at the current time or next few years (I think left out of DoD's numbers), cost of living is less important. Another huge negative in the Bay Area is lack of profesisonal sports, except for the Raiders, A's and Giants. (This is a dig at the 9ers because I hate them and the Warriors because they are...well..the Warriors). But at least it isn't hard to get Rocket's tickets there I have heard (haven't been) Seattle is a nice wanna be SF, don't know about Portland either. Moving off the midwest focus, Chicago culturally is pretty cool, of course you get brutal winters. I know nothing about St Loise except what I could derive from maps-- the weather sucks (hot summers, cold winters) and it is flat. Of course there is a lot of other things to think about that you can't take from maps and pictures (culture, affordability) Now a second way to think of cities geography/climate. Of the big cities Houston is very low on this end (probably the worst), Dallas is maybe a smidgen better, Phoenix, Denver, Seattle, and Portland have more to offer than the large Texas cities, and the California cities are way, way out in front when you consider climate + natural beauty. I guess it depends on your priorities. When I relocated my wife and I were looking for a mid-sized diverse city, but also one big enough for most of what a larger city offers (shows, sports, cultural exhcange) without much traffic & sprawl. We ended up in Tucson, Austin and Albuquerque were also high on our list, had the jobs worked just right we could have been happy to be in Houston or Phoenix too because of family ties. Affordability and being in the Southwest (near our familes) were also very important. Finally, if I were to live in the Southwest and had no family ties to consider by far my first choice would be Austin. There is not a whole lot that goes on in Houston or Dallas that doesn't go on there (big time college versus pro sports is one), with a lot of other perks (Austin has better music too despite it being smaller, Hill country escapes, lakes, etc.). So I would hestiate to move from Austin unless you had a far, far better deal somewhere else. And even then I would think about it. Of course there will be a million opinions on this, this is just mine, Desert Scar [This message has been edited by Desert Scar (edited October 17, 2000).]
i hate to disagree with dr dunk but i think dallas is a very bland unexciting city and i am glad that i do not live there anymore... i am hispanic and i think the bubba mentality is much worse in dallas and i find the people to be generally less international much more enclosed people...in relation to houston i think dallas is far less diverse and basically one big sugarland which to me is boring.. thats the same reason i like nyc though for its sort of dirty raw edge that makes it almost exciting....with dallas they take a field and throw an arbys and jiffy lube on top and call it a city.. houston may be the same but it doesnt seem so planned and fabricated... my personal favorite city is san francisco..i think hands down it is much much nicer than any city in the united states..it has everything you would want and the atmosphere is exceptional..close to the mountains and skiing..basically everything you could want in denver or the other cities all in one...also there is a huge asian population there...i know people complain about it being expensive but then again you are paid accordingly so i feel it works out..you may be a little less off (smaller apartment) but hey are you the type the wants to be in your apartment all day? just like i was in dallas burning my a$$ off? i dont call that living.. 1st choice from that list though would be denver.. i was in dc this weekend and n virginia and that area are becoming more and more something of note and you still get the country feel...honorable mention in this discussion.. ------------------ I think people are forgetting that we are the rockets... WE DONT REBUILD...WE RELOAD....remember that.. [This message has been edited by sirhangover (edited October 17, 2000).]
Nothin' wrong with disagreeing. Can't disagree with anything you said there. Dallas is more "suburb" than Houston will ever be. What Houston calls "the suburb" would be city life in Dallas. In the DFW area, you can actually escape the city... I could never really do that in Houston unless I went 50 miles out of my way. I also think that Houston is far more diverse culturally than Dallas. I hate NYC for the same reasons. I think of places like NYC, Chicago, etc. and think of dirty cities crawling with crime. Maybe I'm stereotyping, so I'm willing to listen. I would never want to live in a city the size of NY, Chicago, or LA. And that's what I hated. There was no planning into the design of Houston. It's just one big blob of humanity. I've heard a lot of good things about SF and would like to visit it someday. There aren't too many cities as diverse as SF, from what I understand, with the possible exception of maybe NY. You know Drunk guy, we actually agree on just about everything. We just happen to want/enjoy 2 different kinds of environments. ------------------ I got nothin'. [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited October 17, 2000).]
I was in Seattle for a weekend last year. Despite the weather, it was a very cool city. I got to see a lot of the downtown area which was nice. Cost of living there, though, is very high. ------------------
sirhangover, Why were you in the virginia/dc area last weekend? I was there, too. ------------------ Talking to a dead hare about art
Responding to pretty much everyone: Austin: Lived there for 8 months. Couldn't find a decent job. Went to Houston, found a job in less than a week for a Big 6 consulting company. A fun place, but doesn't offer the pro sports or symphony/ballet/theatre/24 hour korean barbecue and pizza delivery/expat bar venues that a big city has. As much as I liked the relaxed atmosphere and people I met, I found little excitement off of Sixth Street. Houston: How I love the town the rest of the country loves to hate. Born there, and cried as a kid when my family moved us to Corpus, moved back after high school. All the trapping of a big city, and you can afford to live in a house. I used to frequent a Hong Kong movie theater that showed first run Jet Li movies, YEARS before any video store carried them. I hung out in some very cool Russian bars, met many wonderfully very bad women, and generally found whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. The people are real, and frankly Houston (for me) is the town to which all others are compared. But the traffic/pollution/crime is no better than LA, and might be even worse. LA: People become addicted to this place because of the weather. I haven't had a cold in three years. I do not own air conditioning or heating. I could count on my fingers the days in three years I've needed it. But outside LA proper, The Valley is dull and hot, Orange County is blandly middle-class and undiverse, the Inland Empire is where smog goes to die. Why do I mention those places? Because that's where you would have to live, if you made less than six figures and wanted to own a house (not counting Compton and Watts and such). Coming from Corpus, the water is way to cold to swim in so screw the beach, the the west side of town looks very 80's and plastic. Santa Monica and Venice get old pretty quick. I live in Koreatown. To some it's super-hip, and they are the ones willing to shell out for $1250 a month for the 1 bedroom apartments in my building that were $700 2 years ago. It's not the prettiest place, but's never boring. To others it's a place they wouldn't even stop to buy gas if their tank was empty. I like it though. I'm walking distance from 8 bars, 24 hour Pho, Korean BBQ, and Salvadoran food. The best bar is actually IN my building. How good is it? Voted "Best Drink in Town" by LA Weekly (or something like that). I'm 2 miles from the staples center ($75 gets you a few rows beind the Rockets bench at Clippers games), and my neighbors are either immigrants, strange old people, or musicians, artists, actors, and for better or worse, models. The job market is great, and I've never felt "stuck" in any job. Within one day of putting my resume on hotjobs, I had 15 calls in the LA area. Traffic? Crime? Pollution? Yes sir. But I can say it's no worse than Houston, and the weather is better. Locals are pretty impersonal and self-absorbed. Creative types and Immigrants make beter neighbors here IMHO. There's plenty of them, but LA also leads the country in homeless people who scream obscenities to imaginary people inbetween smoking crack and asking for change and cigarettes. (well,I forgot the drag worms in Austin ;-p ) But as much as I like, I know it will get old eventually, and I don't want to live in a small apartment forever. Dallas: No town deserves the Cowboys more than Dallas. I never liked it much it all. It is indeed very pre-fabricated in appearance. A sprawling metropolis of tract housing, it seems very close-minded, very undiverse, and a place where everyting seems to be going on (except what I want to do). They've got the Kimble museum, though. I'm sure there are people who live there that say I've yet to see the "real" Dallas and that I'm clueless. In all fairness, I didn't spend signifigant time there, but I'm glad I didn't. But also in all fairness, most Dallas people hate Houston more than northerners, so go figure. I'd rather live in Conroe. San Francisco: The anti-Dallas. The 49'ers/Cowboy rivally makes sense to me now. The most beautiful city I've ever been to. Period. Everything here is either very old or very new. The city is managed with facistic precision, which is an affront to my Texan sensibilities but it shows in a good way. Civic pride is unreal. No space is wasted, and old and new buildings blend well from a design standpoint as well as an aesthetic one. It reminds me of Tokyo, but everyone I know who has been to Europe, says SF is more like Paris. Owning a car here is impractical. Mass transit is suberb, and parking is next to impossible anyway. The entire city has a vibe to it that's hard to describe. Just go to the middle of town and walk around. You'll see what I'm talking about. Jobs are plentiful, esp. in the tech field, and I met more attractive girls here than anywhere (I've *seen* more attractive girls in LA and Houston and Atlanta but it doesn't matter if they don't talk to you.) And unlike Southern California, the people are friendly and let me watch the Rockets games at sports bars in peace. BUT...rent here is more expensive than a 4 bedroom house payment in the Woodlands, and the inflated salaries could never make up for that. But then again, if you've ever been you know people want to live there despite that. Portland: Never been, but my old boss said it rained too much (he's from there). He said the beach was beautiful but it wasn't much fun in a raincoat. St. Louis: The Arch is cool, and I like the birdcages of the zoo lining the public roads nearby. But all I did was drive through... Denver: No one would argue the high standard of living, but I don't think anyone would dream of calling it diverse. Phoenix: Westernmost Whataburger in the world. After Phoenix, it's all Carl's Junior and In-And-Out. Also not the world's junction of cultural diversity. Nightlife is insane. People here try to out "LA" LA. I would describe but won't for fear of admitting crimes whose statute of limitation may never expire. Cops are notably friendly. I kinda dig the whole individual freedom thing that Arizona promotes (open display of handguns). BUT: smog + dust= hope you don't wear contact lenses or have asthma. And Phoenix suffers from that whole "built-in-the-last-few-decades-suburban-sprawl-wintout-a-real-center" feel that makes me not like Dallas. Seattle: Rashard is from Houston and HE like it...ok I've never been there but I've also heard it called a "wannabe San Francisco." I did meet the guy who designed the Space Needle at a party once, though. Minneapolis: I've never been there and know little about it. I think the winters would be too much for me. It's not the cold of yankee winters that bothers me, its the lack of sunshine. I'm pretty affected by that. Northern Virgina: West of DC you'll see scenery that can compete with anywhere else in the world in the beauty department. Every season looks different and equally great. DC is an odd town. It's full of one-way streets moving away from the direction you want to go, but I'd move there tomorrow for the right job. I like museums a great deal so it's a good place to nerd out in. ;-) If I had to live in a suburb in America, I wouldn't mind Alexandria. I'll throw in Chicago (my sister wants to move there). Too cold for me, and Lake Michigan taunts the swimmer in me, too used to the Gulf of Mexico. I gave in and jumped in on a hot day when I saw kids swimming in it and I turned shades of blue skin shouldn't be. Other than that it's a hell of a town, the bars stay open all night. Atlanta, I'll throw out there too. If you take away the Braves fans, it's not so bad. ;-) Smaller than Houston, a little bit less diverse (less international anyway). I like it fine, and it's cheap to live. I might move there as a certain cable company is wooing me with a job offer. Vancouver: Largest asian population in North America. I've heard it called "Hongcouver" Marine layer keeps the cold from biting too hard, and California is watching all the entertainment jobs move there for good. But if it's as great as everyone tells me why does Othella hate it so much? I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you are young and buying a house isn't a priority, just go where the work is, which is most likely in the biggest cities. Save your money to buy a house later in one of the less expensive cities. Moving around is a luxury when you are young, so don't feel too tied to anywhere. Once you get older it's a hardship, so enjoy it while you can. ------------------
deji: great post..maybe its because i agree with you on practically all accounts and you come across as someone who has actually been to all these places... i guess my advice is if i were you and i had a choice i would move to san francisco..i believe that wasnt one of the choices but i am making the choice for you... i have to stay here in houston for another year because of job and family commitments (ailing mother) but I can tell you right now i guarantee i will not be here in a couple of years and finally for once and for all i will be in a place that truly makes me feel alive..the place is the sh*t...and no i am not gay..i agree with what deji says about the women there...VERY FRIENDLY and not at all snobbish which i think is a real plus...in addition to the fact there seems to be a shortage of straight guys...imagine that rimbaud i went to dc this past weekend to see a girl up there..saturday night i went out on the town in dc and we went to poly esthers which is much nicer than the one here in houston...i really think they have a good thing going on in that city...virginia in general reminds me of the woodlands..i woudl consider virginia except i am too focused on San Fran after leaving here... not to beat a dead horse but i would seriously consider san fran another reason is that people there (the majority) are not from there...maybe minnesota or phoenix or whatever..then when you put all these people from different places in the same place the people are forced to be nice because they are living there yet maybe not established...even the ones that have been there may have only been there for a few years..so it turns out to be a really really cool deal..thats why you can walk up to a girl and just start talking and people arent so fake and everyone trying to be hard...go to downtown houston and youll see what i am talking about.. when i was there i was there for a week and i met so many cool people and they were always like 'hey man i am going surfing tomorrow want to come?' constantly the case and another reason that i think the place is cool...here in houston i wouldnt talk to someone i dotn know..i have my set of friends we go out try to meet fine a$$ snobs occasionally do and thats it..it seems enclosed and i havent been in a city except san fran that i can say that about...maybe nyc but still the atmosphere isnt the same... ------------------ I think people are forgetting that we are the rockets... WE DONT REBUILD...WE RELOAD....remember that..
I'd like to start by saying that I've only lived (for more than a couple of months) in 2 cities, Houston and Austin. That said, I've visited a number of the cities mentioned here. LA The traffic is just brutal. Its not just the amount of time it takes to get places, - the people who drive out there are insane. And you can't get anywhere by walking. Decent public transportation, if that's important to you, is nonexistant. The pluses, like Deji said, include the unbelievable weather. And I loved going to the beaches (up the coast a little - Santa Monica's too crowded) just to catch some rays and relax, even though actually swimming is downright impossible. Frisco Absolutely the hippest, best-planned, most pedestrian / public transportation city I've been to. Alot to do that is fairly close together. Fun. But to play devil's advocate, I will mention the downsides that I don't think have been brought up. #1 - it is COLD! I mean, walking around with your windbreaker in the middle of August cold. There's some sort of breeze blowing in off the bay that seems to chill the entire city. I've been told that the weather stays pretty similar year-round, but I only visited the one time. #2 - cost of living. Its not just the rent/house payment that is high. Food is more expensive. Gas is the highest I've ever seen - close to double what I pay in Austin. Drinks cost more at the bars I went to as well. Anyway, I don't know if the pay scale compensates for these differences or not. Chicago A very nice city as well. Huge, lots to do. The L is fun but I don't know if it takes you everywhere you want / need to go or not. Also, very cold, windy at times (thus its nickname). People didn't seem as friendly as those I'd met in West Coast cities. A decent amount of diversity, but not as much as I've seen in Houston. Denver Visited as a kid. Remember loving it for its natural beauty (waking up every morning and looking at the huge mountains nearby would never get old). Friendly people. I did get altitude sickness when I went higher up, but I'm guessing you get acclimated pretty quickly if you're living there. As noted, not very diverse. If it makes a difference to you, they are very sports-crazy there. Phoenix, Saint Louis Drove through both. The Arch is pretty, but St. Louis din't look to be a "big city" in the same way that alot of places are. Hard to explain. Phoenix is NEW. New building, new culture, new stadiums, and white, white people. What I fail to understand is why they built this huge city in the middle of what is, for lack of a better word, the desert. No beaches, no rivers, no water source of any kind that I saw. Northern Virginia Also visited as a kid. A couple of times. I loved the trees. Northern Virginia, like Maryland, seems to be just covered in forest. And they have real seasons up there (4 of them!). Such a novel concept. Only thing is, it seems to be suburb after suburb surrounding DC. Because alot people don't want to actually LIVE in DC. What left a lasting impression on me was driving through the middle of the city, towards the Capitol Mall, going to see gleaming, impressive monuments and museums, and passing neighborhood after neighborhood of bleak, broken down houses and tenaments. Definitely a rich man, poor man type of city. Very large minority (African American) population. ------------------
Thanks for all the responses. I think I will take the "go where the money/jobs" advice. I will not live in ATL. It's ironic, but I am prejudiced against the south. I just don't think it is a minority friendly city. I really do love Austin, but the traffic is insane, and there is alot of "new money" type people. Houston is definitely a possibility. 2 chinatowns, my parents can visit. Plus, as big a Houston sports guy I am, I've NEVER been to a Rocket/Astro/Oiler game. I plan to change that asap. Once again, thanks for the responses. ------------------ "It's not a matter of if we will win the NL central, it's by how many games." Barry Larkin
