I hope the Rudy Gay/Battier trade doesnt bit us in a$$ in 5 years

Gater,

I agree with you on a lot of points, but you can't really say for certain that Swift+Gay would have been a more potent combination than Battier. Swift last year was almost as useless as Kirk Snyder was this year and although Gay's numbers are similar to Battier's, I don't think he would have been a good fit in Van Gundy's slow it down half court offense. So in terms of "Win Now" the Rockets did the right thing, but the wrong thing was they stupidly assumed we were just one or 2 pieces away from being a contender. We're in win now mode sacrificing our future when the reality is we're not good enough to win now.

 

We are at least 3 pieces away from even getting out of the 1st round.

 

I'm glad we have Battier now,although I hated the trade last summer.

 

Ask Dallas how important regular season wins are.

 

TTR -
No...I can't say for certain that Gay + Swift > Battier in 2006-07. But let me tell you what I CAN say for certain...

* The Rockets did NOT get the Grizz's #24 pick.

* If 40+ year old Dikembe Mutombo retires this summer, the Rockets backup C is freakin' Jake Tsakalidis. Now, you can bad mouth Stro all you want, but he's better than Jake at C and hugely better than Jake at PF. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

* The Rockets were up 2-0 vs Utah and only needed to win 2 of 5 games with 2 of those games being in the TC. They didn't.

* The Utah Jazz are a young team with little to no playoff experience. But they are vastly more athletic than Houston.

* The Rockets had the same WC record as LAL and GS.

* The Golden State Warriors are an athletic team. They have played 2 games in Utah and have been closer to winning there than anything 2-0 Houston was able to muster.

* Evaluating Stromile Swift under Van Gundy is the fundamentally equivalent to evaluating Steve Francis under VG. And it's grossly inaccurate. Athlete's (Francis, Mobley, Swift, Wells, Snyder, Spanoulis) don't excel under VG because they have to subjugate what comes naturally to VG's overly complex defensive schemes. Which thus far has netted 3 first round exits.

The above is virtually not debatable. Close to the above is the following...

The Rockets with Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady are a certified playoff team. If you trade away athleticism, depth and upside for "Win Now" ...and you don't get past the 1st round...you were foolish.

 

As long as Guy won't become Jordan, it won't. Also remember that he can choose to sign any where after 5 years, as Bozzer did with Jazz by dropping Cleaverland.

 

Yeah, they might have paid too high of a price, but they still made the team better in the short run. Maybe that was only this year though.

Maybe so, but Stro was pretty much useless for the Rockets at any position. He hasn't been that great on the Grizzlies either. Comparing Stro to Jake is like comparing Alston and Smush Parker. Either way you're screwed.

True, but athleticism isn't the be all end all, as we have learned with Swift and Snyder. Even if we played Stro, Gay, Snyder(3 superb athletes) we still would've lost just as bad, probably worse.

This IMO is because the Rockets under Van Gundy are coached well to put maximum effort into each game and have a very high bball IQ. This translates into a very high winning percentage against bad teams. There were a lot of bad teams in the NBA this year that explains the inflated 52-30 record.

Right, but I think the Warriors have a lot of talent. They have a good player at every position, not scrubs like Swift and Snyder. Not all about athleticism.

Here I tend to disagree. I think it's more because every play must go thru Yao, who is probably one of the slowest players in the NBA. I think it's difficult for other players besides Yao to get into a rhythm and get easy baskets. This negates a lot of athletic offensive talent, but it opens up room for 3pt shooting(Battier's one specialty).

I agree. I personally would try and trade Battier for an athletic swing player like Maggette if possible. If not, he is still a decent player to have around Yao, but definitely should not be the 3d piece or the missing link as most posters here feel.

 

Damn, I cursed it at the Toyota Center like 90% of those there. I did think it turned out to be a good trade based on watching Shane, who is ok, and the general talk on this bbs about Gay. Shane is not third man material on a championship team, unless 4 and 5 are decent offensive players.

I did not watch Gay. I hope you are wrong, but feel that you may be right about being raped.

 

The only problem is Swift's trading value is down to nearly zero under JVG's coaching. In fact, we should be able to get more out of the deal.

 

IF this wasn't JVG's excuse, then it looks like another mistake we would have made, at least Gay is better than Thabo right now. And let Portland know our secret plan with Minnesoda was another stinky job, it was said Portland didn't want Foye. I still doubt Rox has done everything they could to trade up for Roy, but no one knows.

Forget about Gay, it is a done deal, Rox's drafting work was quite disappointed in recent year, let's see if they can do it better this year.

 

Rudy Gay / Shane Battier in dictionary says to gross reference Richard Jefferson / Eddie Griffin trade for some reason?

All joking aside, I love Shane in a completely heterosexual way, but, we need some spirit, vitality, some heart, generally young or really really old guys have it. Shane is neither. WE NEED A LEADER.

 

It doesn't really matter if Gay wasn't our pick. If Gay ends up being a great player the Rockets organization will still be judged on the trade if not by us then by everyone else.

When this trade was made I said it didn't make sense unless the Rockets reached the finals. Well we saw what happened.

 

I personally have never been ok with it. I never will be. Yes I think it will bite us in the ass. I love Battier, but that is just how I feel. I know his numbers do not show how much he does, but truly his numbers were not any better than Gays and you never know how Gay would have played on the Rox team. A team with two superstars on the road to the playoffs. You just don't know.

 

Even aloe and Preparation H won't heal that trade. Like some of the other Rockets' draft day stupidity in years past, the pain in our rear will become legendary.

 

I don't have time or inclination to respond line by line. I'll leave you with this...

When your big man plays basketball 12 months a year with a focus of winning the Olympic Gold in his country in 2008 and you have a two stars with a history of health issues...taking a single player with an already defined ceiling over athletes with one having significant (now established) upside...that's a huge risk IMHO.

Especially when you compound that risk by populating an entire team with complimentary role players that have little to no value anywhere else. This last comment about a squad of role players is not a reactionary knee-jerk on my part...it's a near direct quote from Jon Barry during a Rockets' TV broadcast.

Barry paraphrase: "Thev'ye built a team which plays a certain style but is nearly untradable to another system".

Now, we could debate the NBA value of athletes vs non-athletes until the end of next season. But I propose further that their are at least two other advantages ahletes have...defensively. They are able to play passing lanes and recover quickly if they've made a defensive mistake. And they close out better.

Stated another way...athletes don't need anywhere near the defensive complexity of VG (where Battier excels) to play effective defense. That's the reason the anti-Van Gundy Suns' style has nearly an identical points-opponents points margin.

As far as the "close out" factor, you don't have to go any further than comparing Luther Head's 3pt% vs playoff caliber teams and sub .500 teams.

They've built a team on a flawed concept and Battier is the primary example. When you have the previously mentioned situations with Yao and McGrady...and you have the close out factor on Head and Alston in a league with an emphasis on athleticism...and you have Juwan and Lucky Chucky as your PF's...adding another non-athlete was precisely the WRONG way to go.

Your best option is what the creator of this thread "HOPES" for...the Rox don't get bitten on the backside. Like most of the Battier fans, my mind is made up also.

 

Since we are talking about being raped and then bitten on the behind:

Jeff Van Gundy = Bill Fitch.

Bill Fitched the Rockets, and so has JVG.

 

Well I for one am just very grateful they took Vince Young instead of Mario Williams....

I meant Rashaad Lewis instead of Brice Drew....

errrr I mean I am glad they draft well or we wouldn't have Eddie Griffi....


Oh never mind

 

*one of the 10 best posts i have ever read on this message board*

 

Getting Battier is not a bad idea. It is about the price Rox paid to get him. Gay + Swift? The price is way high for a glue guy.

They should at least get another first round pick.