If Cat goes, I think we will see a SG with jump shooting skill rather than driving skill to play for us. As a matter of fact, Houston needs more players with jump shooting skill at all positions to complement Yao and Steve. The trouble with players these days are guys with jump shooting skills don't play great defense and vice versa. We either have a shooting specialist or a defense specialist. It is rare to find one that does both.
Agreed. Some of you who are hollering to get his ass out of town might be wanting him back sooner than you think.
You can be such a reactionary. Do you think that only players we're dying to dump are on the block? You have to give to get. Cat's the most attractive trade bait we have (along with Rice's expiring contract) and we want to make some changes. Of course he's on the block. Thanks for the info, MacBeth. Let us know if you hear more.
He ain't gone yet! He's just "On the trading block". Vince Carter...Alvin Williams...Morris Peterson....that's it.
There's nothing wrong with trading good players. If Yao gets more touches this year it will probably mean that Cat will get less. His trade value may be at an all time high.
How many times have we gone over this. 1. We don't have enough talent to compete for a championship. 2. To fill in the gaps, we need better players or players who better fit our style of play. 3. In an ideal world, we would trade Mo Taylor and Moochie Norris. 4. We don't live in fantasyland so what are our hottest commodities? 5. Cat (decent scorer, good contract, relatively young), Eddie Griffin (only 21), and Glen Rice's expiring contract. That's it. 6. Do we trade these players for nothing? No. We listen to offers or inquire about other players and if the right situation arises, then we make the trade. 7. or we pray Yao is really the next big thing. To recap: Why Cat? People don't want Moochie Norris. Why make the trade? Because our core group of players won't make us a contender and we need better or different players. Why not make a trade? Because we can either get a worse player, disrupt team chemistry, or we're hoping Yao becomes the next great player and we won't need to make a trade.
MacBeth, thanks for the info. Earlier articles mentioned Gundy as saying the core/future of the team is Yao/Steve/Cat. According to the rumor things have changed. As for Mobley being underpaid? How is Mobley underpaid? Does he do anything fantastic? He is a great individual talent but he is not a good team player. He is decent at penetration but he doesn't have the shooters touch. For every positive that Mobley brings there is always a negative point. People on this board hype up Mobley. But if Mobley is so good then why didn't the Rockets win more games with Mobley as first option when Francis was injured?
Things haven't changed. JVG didn't guarantee Cat's future here -- he said something more like this team's got a great future with players like Yao, Steve, Cat. No third option's guaranteed to stay. How's Mobley underpaid? He took less than market value to play here. Find a list of players who produce his stats and make less and find a list that produce his stats and make more. It's a market value thing. I guarantee you that second list's longer. Mobley's also been asked to perform various different roles with this team (point guard, SG, SF, second option, first option, third option, offensive threat, defensive stopper) in various schemes. He's been asked to step up and to hold back. And he's young. And he makes way under market value. You'd better believe he's our best trade bait. SLA: MacB didn't say we were working a deal with Toronto; he said Cat was on the block. Big difference. And none of this means he'll be moved, only that (of course) it's a possibility. No third option, possible 20 ppg SG, with a sweetheart contract is untouchable, especially when our two other guys need max contracts and we need help at other positions. To suggest he was (or, as zz said, to suggest that this was a "lie") is the height of naivete.
SLA...there appears to be a mild misunderstanding here...The rumour has little or nothing to do with the Raptors, other than that the reporter who told me about the word going around the league is a Toronto based basketball reporter...but nowhere in the rumour is there any mention of specific trading partners, let alone the Raptors specifically. This is supposedly a league wide rumour, not a Toronto based rumour.
Yeah...the timing of this is what I find strange. Ok, I will expand what I was told, but this includes supposition, so take it for what it's worth: Apparently preceding the Mobley on the block rumour coming out of Toronto was this little rumour: That Cat and Steve gave grudging at best approval of the offensive ideas JVG stresses; Sort of like a 'ummm..all right...if that's what we have to do...' kind of thing. Apparently neither were all that crazy about the choice of JVG, as they feel what he stresses and what they do are not all that in sync. Also, there was mild resistance from the beginning, as Francis didn't want to fly in to meet JVG ( something he said he'd do for Brown), but instead JVG flew out to meet him, and JVG's meetings with Francis and Mobley were each described as having mixed results. Bottom line, they say they'll play for him, and he;s the coach...but there was resistance and reluctance. Point of clarification: This stuff is not nearly as solid as the Cat On The Block stuff...this is stuff put together, and includes a lot of filling in the blanks from outside sources...the Cat stuff is what id going round, absent of interpretation... Okay, so my friend supposed a couple of things...One, that JVG decided that having both Francis and Mobley, with both of them less than enthusiastic about what he's trying to implement, would be too much of an uphill battle...or the brass decided for him. Or two, simply that, as Riet and Batman have said, we need to make changes, and Cat is our best available trading piece that we can afford to part with. But the timing does surprise me...WIth what JVG had said, i was anticipating at least a half season of trying to see what could be worked out with Cat, as opposed to moving him now.
I can buy that Mac. I kind of bought into it anyway because you're a pretty reliable person to me. I would like to see what happens with Cat,Francis and Ming under JVG, but I may be in the minority on this one. Personally, i think the most tradeable player we have is Francis. Before anyone brings up the old thread about Francis for x,y, and z, we know that managment would dare trade him even though Payton,,Marbury,Kidd to name a few have been traded through their career's. I really believe that Cat is on the block like most have stated, but I'm not sure how strongly they will try to trade him. This is a business and has nothing to do with Cat,Steve or whoever else as a person. I just think that its not a good mix for the team with Francis and Mobley in the same backcourt. Alot of times you can see one or the other penetrate and instead of dropping it down, throw a skip pass all the way across the court to another. I think what JVG is seeing in those film breakdown is the blinders they have for one another which isn't healthy for the team. Just like with Griffin, I don't want to just give him away for nothing because relative to his salary, he's a bargain like Cassell. I think the only way i trade Mobley is if i get what i need in return and free up some salary or players. A team like Toronto might be interested, but they don't have anything we want besides Carter unless you consider A.Williams. What i would be looking at is teams with overload of players at positions. A good example of that would be Indy. If B. Miller leaves, would they take Cat and Cato for Harrington and Mercer? I just don't think some of these ideas can really hit until some of the free agent are signed.
At least we now know that JVG is a man of his word...he actually DID go back and watch the games...UGGGHH! As he sat through "heat-check" after "heat-check" jumper from Mobes...Now Cat's on the block. Makes sense to me. I too respect MacBeth's long-winded positions and trust his source. Side bar: Speaking of watching game tapes - The Clips game was a good one, you know the one where Rice buried three or four 3's in the last period (and waning moments) and scored 20? I remember utter frustration and pain, so we must have lost that game, my therapist is working to keep last season's Rockets memories "fuzzy". He says if I keep up my therapy and the Rockets start winning, perhaps I'll spend less time on the BBS. I fired him.
At the risk of posting the obvious, the Rox have EVERY incentive to publicly portray Mobley as an important part of the Rox core. If he is not an integral part of our team, what is he? A decent piece of the puzzle? A disposable asset? A talented but brainless player? A cancer to team chemistry on the court? The more valuable other GM's think Mobley is to the Rox, the less likely they will try to just rob us blind. Perception counts. JVG's statement that Mobley is an important part of the Rox core is not at all inconsistent with the possibility/probability that Mobley is being shopped like filet mignon at a Jenny Craig convention.
Prior to Van Gundy's hiring Clutch and Doc were pretty much saying Cat was a goner. Since then, they haven't said anything about plans changing. My guess is, whatever CD was planning on doing before we got Van GUndy, he still plans on doing now.
Then hell with it, I'll go ahead and jump the gun. I'm sick of Steve's attitude, or having to bring him around to someone else's way of thinking. Jitterbug combo guards won't win a lot of games on their own. If he doesn't like it, send him to Washington, which has cap space. He'd love to go home. Might even make the playoffs. Steve's gonna have a tough time fitting in with what we need to do with this team. I don't want to read too much into all this, I'm just venting, but Steve has been a disruptive force, which, I think, is part of the reason Rudy didn't discipline/coach him very much. I know Steve's important to this team, and the team doesn't want to lose one of its two franchise players, and the organization wouldn't have the guts to trade Steve for players that better fit our needs (Jamal Crawford, Caron Butler)....and, again, I'm just venting...but at least Cat made the effort to reach out to JVG, while Mohammed had to go the mountain with hat in hand ("please see it my way"). Now Steve has a coach who actually wants to instill discipline and set plays and such, and Steve's balking. I guess it would be fair to say, "give them time to work together." Hopefully we're not seeing the clash of two irresistible forces. We don't need a Brown/Iverson problem here.
Hell, I would trade Cat and Eddie for Carmelo Anthony and cap filler. I'd throw in a first rounder to Denver if we could get J. Howard to fill in the rest of the difference , up to the most allowable in the CBA to pull a S&T. I know, it's a pipe dream.... Carmelo is a sweet shooting 3 with very nice range to help out when Yao gets doubled, and would have Rice as his mentor/sub for a season. Posey would be our defensive minded 2 with good hops and driving ability who can hit the open 3. Howard as our 4, with MoT backing him up. Scary!!!, it almost sounds like the Nuggets I'm talking about, only with Stevie and Yao added.
I don't want to discourage creative thinking, but you do realize that this doesn't even qualify as a pipe dream unless the pipe in question is filled with crack, right?
I'm not sure they said that. Would love for it to be true, but I think Cat will be here next year. Too many variables against the trade (new coach, who really wants him, will he go, what can we get, Steve, etc.).
