I have seen enough !! (The Francis and Mobley are dumb thread)

I agree with you. It's only been so many games into the season that you can't blame him for the rest of the season on one game. But everytime I watch the games and I see Francis just keep making boneheaded mistakes, I just sit back in disbelief. EVERY player has his shortcomings and make stupid mistakes, but Francis' mistakes are consistent. Every game he has to :

1. Drive in against 3 defenders and jack up a shot just to try and draw a foul.

2. Mess up a fastbreak. Unless he's dunking the ball, it's gonna be a botched fastbreak.

3. Get into competition. Not just with the other PG, but with himself because heck, I'm pretty sure Raul Lopez got nothing against Francis. He always goes out and tries to prove that he's the better PG on the court and then gets wrapped up in the 'I'm better' syndrome.

And I commend JVG for yanking him out of games when he does these things. It might be negative reinforcement but that just depends on the player getting yanked out. Is he gonna learn from what he did and know why he was pulled out? Or is he gonna walk straight to the end of the bench, sit there with a towel over his head, and think about how to break the other PG's ankles?

 

With all due respect to MacBeth and the other senior members here, I find it deeply troubling that now, when Francis is being asked to properly execute the duties of his position (point guard), his "game" seems to have fallen into complete disarray. This is a development that I do not like...

 

I was going to chime in with my Mobley/Francis migraine post but it's pretty much been covered by what other posters here have said. I will say this though. Eventually people are going to have to realize that if little to no progress from this guard duo who have played together for 4 frickin years and sent us to the lottery for 4 frickin years, that there definitely needs to be a shakeup. If they've had that much time to atleast get their fundamentals down and still don't have it then chances are they probably never will. The truth of the matter is, no matter how athletically gifted this duo is, if they can't take advantage of their physical abilities with the proper mental game, then they'll always be inconsistent. It's ridiculous having to bare watching those two fail to execute fundamental basketball plays like running the fast break.

 

Trade Steve for Nick Van Exel. I think Van Exel will fit better in the JVG system than Steve. I am sure GS will accept the trade.

 

This might have been a good idea... five years ago. Steve just hasn't had anyone to learn how to play the point position from since he entered the NBA. By now, I think it's too late.

I've advocated moving Steve to the 2 since midway last season; however, this year, I'd hoped that we wouldn't need a "pure point" as the team slowly adapts to a ball-movement oriented offense where overall team passing skill is of supreme importance as opposed to relying on a single playmaker (of course, I also thought that Steve would be playing more off the ball this year as well). I still think the team needs development in pretty much all areas, and I'm willing to be patient with the new coach, new players, and new system.

I really think our good start has raised our expectations to unrealistic levels; I understand that collectively, we as fans are getting somewhat restless with the team, but I do think that the team deserves more patience on our our part, especially after road losses (which is where 4 of our 5 losses have come from); if there's one thing I've learned from a decade of watching NBA basketball, it's that you can never assume a road win. Last year, we didn't protect our home court, and it came back to bite us. If we start losing several games to bad teams on our home floor, then I'll start thinking drastic changes are in order. Until then, let's see what this year has in store for the team...

 

Oh i have no doubt if they don't make the Playoffs this year, Steve is going to be traded.

 

However bad Steve looked in the past two games( actually I don't remember too many games that he schooled other guards), I say he should not be responsible for all this himself.

Most of us here agree Steve could be a much better player at the SG position. Therefore, by putting him at the PG position is really forcing the issue.

I say the team management is liable for this mostly by not making proper trade and pick decisions too. I would get at least a good backup PG to back this poor guy up a bit. Right now Moochie is the backup. What a joke!

I forgot the guy's name, is that Avery Johnson? I would love to have him on this team even he is old. But he has the PG blood in him.

Happy holidays, everyone! Hope another lucky win at either Sacremento or Seatle will not change our thoughts.

 

I agree it's troubling, just not conclusive. I have been criticzing Steve since way back. In fact, when I was JAG, I posted a thread pointing out that every NBA Chamo who had a pg as one of it's stars had a playmaking point, and that there was nothing on record to suggest a shoot-forst point could win it all, as he's too easy to shut down in a long series, and the club's fate is too much dependant upon one man. People back then were so high on Steve that I was assured that Steve would break the mold.

It's still possible, but less likely than the possibility that he will meet with success simultanous to his increased ability to get others involved, particularly Yao.

But the fact that he's struggling a bit hould not come as a surprise, when you consider that he is essentially being asked to go away from everything he has known up till now, to forget everything he thinks he has learned about how to win, and to alter his style of play and role on the team. It's going to be a bumpy ride for a while, anyone expecting smooth sailing was fooling themselves.

 

Yes, Steve has all the physical talent in the world... when God was passing it out, he was standing just behind Kobe and McGrady. However, intelligence is another, equally important type of talent. Having one without the other can only take you so far, particularly when you are a key decision maker for your respective team. If you look at all the greats that have lead their teams to championships, they usually possess both traits (physical and mental)...Jordan, Magic, Isiah, Olajuwon, Kobe...these guys knew how to make the right plays during crunch time.

The question is who can we realistically bring in for SF? Frankly, I would take Nash in a heartbeat, but I doubt Dallas would do it, unless their ousted early this season. I think we need to wait until the offseason and target a team that's looking to change.

 

T

 

Steve for Nash straite up id take it right now! & i wouldnt be suprised if Cuban took it too..??

 

What has happened on court and what is being said look extremely similar to that of last season.

Pain.

 

There is no way on earth Dalls takes Steve for Nash, unless, as is unlikely, they're convinced that Nash leaves at the end of the year.

They have all the scorers anyone would ever need, what they lack is defense and, when Nash was out, someone to orchestrate the offense. How they played without Nash made it painfully obvious to everyone that without him, they're just a bunch of scorers waiting for the ball. He is what makes their offense work,and Dirk himself acknowledges that his importance is second to Nash's.

Nash for Steve, while arguably to their benefit from a sheer talent standpoint, would never meet with their approval.

 

What about Steve for Bibby or B. Jackson <-- im just throwing out ideas, so i can get some comments

 

Of course, that would be great for Rox. But, if we don't need him, why one earth would the team-oriented Kings want him?

 

Here's my thing on trading Steve; Don't do it.


Teams need at least 2 stars to be consistent contenders. Teams need at least 2 superior scorers.


We have one in Yao, and one in Steve, potentially. Trade Steve, and we'll get lesser value, and have a much less chance of having a seond star and a second scorer. Then we would be a treadmill team; good enough to miss the lottery, and therefor not get another star, but not good enough to win it all. WHat seperates us and being a contender now is much more readily achieved, albeit not easy; Steve and Yao have to grwo into their roles, and we need to fit in the right parts around them. The latter might help the former accelerate.

Unless any of you have a way for acquiring another star player/scorer, Steve is our best bet for long term success. Is it a guarantee? No. Will it be easy? No. But trading our best chance away out of impatience and frustration will just make it harder.

 

Before you start the trade threads, realize that you same fans have misjudged all the players so far and this is no different. Cato used to be one of the most hated and now that's changed. Yao used to be god who simply didn't get the ball enough, now he's seen as a wimp.... Francis and Cat are blamed whenever we lose and nothing is said of them when they do great...

Realize that the whole team did poorly today. Not just Steve, or Cuttino, but also JJ and ... yes, even Yao. Our opinions of players are easily changed by a W or a L, therefore we cannot honestly trust ourselves with judging the players since we have failed so many times in the past already. You must have faith in the coach to set things right. You must have faith in this franchise to set things right. I believe Van Gundy knows what to do; he's a no nonsense coach and will make the right changes to make us a winning ballclub (Its funny that all this negative talk of being a team is coming when we're amongst the top of the Western Conference).

Also realize that we are on a long road trip and the team was not able to practice even. I have a feeling if they had practice, everybody's shots would have gone down better.

It's very frustrating to lose, but even more frustrating coming here to see the predictable trade threads. Let's all bond with our hatred for the Jazz. I don't know about you guys, but the Jazz are still the same without Stockton and Malone. There was the flopping, cheap tactics and more flopping. I swear, I kept seeing Stockton out there but it was just that scrappy point guard of theirs... I kept wishing that somebody would knock his head off the next time he reached for the ball. The Jazz will still be the same team I hate as long as Sloan is the coach.

 

Sounds like no one would take our "All Star" pg even for nothing?

 

Yeah but Steve is so bad at handling the ball and running the offense that he makes everyone worse on his team. Individually he's a great player, but at the expense of everyone's game. I wonder what this team would be like with Brent Barry running the point. Less TO's, more assists. Much higher percentage shooting. More efficient. Player efficiency is probably the most important part in Van Gundy's slower tempo game. Steve is the type that would probably run well with the mavs, but nash would still have to be PG for it to work.

 

So move Steve to sg, and concentrate our efforts on getting a bigger defensive pg. Offer Cato, Mobley, and a 1st or so to Toromto for Davis and Williams. I don't know. I do know that getting a star is really hard, having 2 is almost impossible to repeat quickly. Look at Minny. Traded away Marbury for a more traditional pg...and spent the next decade looking for a second star to complement KG, and take some of the load off his back. Look at Toronto since T-Mac left, or Orlando now. Or Atlanta during Wilkins career. Or Seattle after Kemp went south. Having 1 star is about as bad a circumstance as you can be in. It's a trap. Don't step into it willingly if there's a chance you can have 2 stars that work. It will take time, and it might not work. Maybe Steve will have to play 2. Maybe he'll grow into a better 1. But don;t rade him because 13 games into the season, he's not there yet.