He needs to reel it in. Harden is having what is probably the best non Wilt offensive season of all time so the strategy will be daring Westbrook to beat them. Rockets need to develop some plays that dont involve Russ in iso where hell be tempted to brick a long two or three.
The unfortunate thing for Russ is especially now he is going to ultimately be compared with James as a equals now but that’s unfair expectations as Harden is now truly a top 3 or at worst 5 offensive monster to ever play hence people will pounce on Russ sometimes unfairly.
Yeah the reality is as "bad" as WB has played he is still much, much better than how Cp3 played last year. Harden having a historic season might have something to do with WB pushing the pace, it forces everyone to get moving unlike last year when Harden and Cp3 just took turns massaging the ball. Now the offense seems more dynamic cuz opponents know Harden isnt just gonna step back and 3 every single posession.
This will always get lost on the people who have a agenda or started the narrative that it won’t work
an 8-2 team with a +7 would be considered much more likely than not to finish the season with a better record than a 10-0 team with a +1 margin. yes, westbrook is presumably better than RAPTOR indicates. but as jordnnnn has pointed out, there are not many stats that say he is doing well. PER says slightly above average but it overrates volume. WS/48 says below average but it overrates efficiency. On/Off of -4.8 says not good. our incredible shot selection and harden's insane performance are the biggest reasons for our offensive success. the fact russ is so inefficient even though teams literally just leave him open to double harden is very worrying. think about what it would look like if he was in the same role as okc where he wasn't just getting wide open opportunities and 4-on-3 opportunities. toronto just straight up didn't guard him and he went 7-27 with 8 turnovers. that might be one of the worst regular season games any superstar has played in a long time considering he wasn't being guarded. the best that can probably be said is that he didn't wreck our offense. yes, i'm sure there are tangential benefits to him increasing the pace and certainly he has had good games and provides speed we haven't had in years past, but he is so spectacularly inefficient and turnover prone it almost seems impossible sometimes. and yes his explosion to the basket when harden gets doubled is often nice. but there just seems to be so much more bad westbrook than good westbrook. if all he took off the board was efficiency we could deal with it. but he's turnover prone and lazy on D. there's just so much bad stuff to corral. maybe he will play like december for the rest of the season. he better, because otherwise all he has done is lower our floor. and based on the last 2 years, he doesn't save his best for the playoffs.
You keep talking about the bad things about WB but what about the bad things about Cp3? Because remember this isnt about whether WB is a good or bad player, it is simply about Russ vs Cp3 since those are the only 2 options. We can talk about stats all day but you don't need a computer to know Harden loves Russ but can't stand Cp3, he campaigned actively to ship Cp3 out and they havent talked since. Considering Harden already had beef with Cp3 you think he will enjoy playing and have the same type of energy with Cp3 as with Russ who is his bff? I worked with people who are toxic in the office and I can tell you I'd rather have a dumb teammate I get along with than a smart dude I can't stand when I'm doing a project. I don't care how awesome or efficient he is my game goes down if I'm on the same group as a guy I hate. Harden must feel the same way because his production and efficiency has increased with Russ than with Cp3 when Russ is the absolute worst guy to pair with Harden since he is ball dominant and cant shoot. Harden straight up asked for WB when your franchise player flexes like that you do it no questions asked cuz if you don't he might feel you don't care about him. You will really risk Harden getting so tilted he asks for a trade just to keep Crippled P3 on the squad? Ask Harden if he'd rather have an inefficient WB or an efficient Cp3 what would he say? Do you think you know better than Harden himself who his teammate should be? To act like they arent humans with feelings is just straight up dumb. In bball the human element will always outweigh the statistical element that's why the dude with the most rings isnt the goat.
But that’s not what this is about at all. This thread is not and discussion is NOT about CP3 vs Westbrook. This is about Westbrook on the Houston Rockets. This is not about who James Harden prefers. It is about Westbrook’s performance as a Houston Rocket compared to any player that has ever played a minute of NBA basketball. The denial that he has been a sub par player IS the discussion. The denial that the least efficient player on our team taking 20+ shots is a HUGE obstacle to overcome almost every single game is the discussion. And no efficiency isn’t something I personally over rate. Efficiency is the name of the game in basketball. It is the MOST IMPORTANT thing. The best offense in the league is the best offense in the league because it is the most efficient offense in the league. The best defense in the league is the best defense in the league because they hold their opponent to the lowest efficiency. It is now and always has been Westbrook’s biggest flaw and the reason it is so hard to win against better competition with him.
jordnnnn already answered the same thing, but this is about westbrook and whether he is good for us or not. i completely agree that the trade was inevitable b/c harden wanted it. the question is whether james harden made the right choice, not whether we should have kept our best player happy.
I'm not so sure about that. Usually, the higher seed is favored and the higher seed is who has simply won the most games. Teams are doubling Harden regardless of who is on the floor. They'd be doing the same with CP3 on the floor because they do the same no matter who he's paired up with. They were even doubling him with Gordon on the floor, it just goes to show they rather ANYONE else shoot the shot than Harden and they just want to give him looks. Also, teams are specifically designing defenses to stop Russ. The 6ers specifically made it a point to fill the paint and clog the lane so that Russ would shoot mid range shots and not shots at the rim which is his best shot. You know how teams defend CP3? They just put one guy on him. Teams don't go into games anymore worried about CP3. You don't gameplan for him anymore. The Rockets get a ton of open shots because of both players. And CP3 does? As mentioned before, Westbrook has a better playoff history than CP3 does when it comes to playing in big games and getting his teams win. You say the past 2 years. The first of those two years he wasn't on the best of teams and the other of those two years he was the only reason his team won a game 'Playoff P' wasn't exactly leading the way there. Meanwhile, before playing with Harden, CP3 has been a constant post-season disappointment.
I know we can't really know the answer to this definitively but I very very strongly disagree. I think if CP3 was on the floor with Harden and teams doubled Harden the rockets would get good looks on every single possession. It would be immediately obvious that it wasn't going to work. It's not just CP3 either, I think if you had anyone back there with Harden who is an above average playmaker and above average shooter then the doubling wouldn't work. Unfortunately we don't have one of those on the roster, we have a bunch of guards who can do one but not the other.
We do though, we have shooters on the floor. We had EGO on the floor and Philly was still doubling Harden. Rivers is also a good shooter. Mclemore, Tucker, these people are good shooters who get open shots and teams just rather live with that then Harden shooting. Also, Westbrook is waaaaaaaaaay more than an above average playmaker and he gets easy shots from the doubles, they just aren't 3 point shots. If we continue to see Harden getting doubled WITH Ego on the floor then wouldn't you have to concede that they'd do the same with CP3?
I said we need a player who can do both. None of those guys are above average at both. Rivers and Westbrook are playmakers who can't shoot, McLemore and Gordon are shooters but not playmakers. Yes, Westbrook is one of the top playmakers in the league, but he can't shoot. I don't think there's any jumpshot available in these situations that is easy for Westbrook. No, because I don't think Gordon is an above average playmaker. To give more explanation to what I'm saying, I think the double teams on Harden wouldn't work if we had another guard that could accomplish two things. First, he cannot be left open at the three point line. We need a guard back there who can, if he's open from 3, knock down those shots confidently and repeatedly at a good rate. Second, if the other team decides to double Harden but also quickly shift to prevent that open 3 when this second guard gets the ball, this guy needs to be a good enough playmaker to quickly pick apart the 4 on 3 situation (because of the double on Harden) to get a good/easy/high percentage shot BEFORE the defense is able to recover. If we had a guard who could do this, I think teams would quickly realize that they cannot double Harden, it just wouldn't work. I think there are a handful of guys in the league who could do this, but we don't have one on the Rockets.
IF and only IF Capela can build off his 30 point 13 rebound performance and be consistent and Westbrook can dunk the ball continuing to go at a fast pace scoring inside the paint that's enough for this team to be dangerous...but again these are IF's...I think Gordon can take the load off Westbrook so he can stick to driving in the paint more so than just clunking 3's...that Philly game should be a blueprint for the Rox for the rest of the season as to what can/can't work imo
The surprising part is that his fg attempts have not changed. 3pt attempts drops only slightly. His efficiency remains at a very low level. .503 TS% is quite low. It's surprising because he is no longer the alpha dog here. He doesn't have to carry the team. He can sort of pick his spot. And he is supposed to be more open with Harden attracting all the defensive attention.
We had a player that can do both and it didn't work out. We don't have to say "We can't know what would happen because..." because we know what DID happen. We saw it happen. I don't like this argument of we don't know what would happen with a CP3-Harden duo when we saw it with our own eyes that it wasn't enough. Even if you say...okay...CP3 doesn't allow teams to doulbeteam. Let's concede that...so what? Can CP3 get past his man time after time again to make it matter? I don't think he can anymore. We can look at what he's doing to guys in the regular season but lets remember, we'll be going up against the likes of Beverly, Kawhi, PG13, and a bevy of long rangy defenders...not whoever the Cavs throw out that night. I know that Westbrook is a nightmare guard for these guys still because I've seen it. I know he can still destroy teams with his speed because I've seen it. Until I see CP3 doing what he's doing when it matters most I refuse...refuse...to believe that we'd have gotten anywhere with him as our 2nd best player. In the end, we'll see how teams play us in the playoffs, it likely won't be the same thing, teams don't have much time to really gameplan in the playoffs. I think many teams are just copying what Denver is doing because it worked and we have seen a bit less of it. The playoffs are a different beast though, Utah pulled some odd strategy out against us and teams have basically played Harden straight up in most series with the knowledge that one man won't beat them in a 7 game series and they've been right. Becuase Harden always has 3-4 great playoff games in a series and rarely has ever had that other star player to chip in with a great game of their own...so when Harden has that dud game (which every superstar has) people put the onus on him. EDIT: I think Harden/CP3 are redundant and as such it makes sense that they are both playing better with the other one gone. CP3 gets to control the game when he wants to now and Harden gets what he's always wanted is another guy to toss the ball to when he's tired of carrying the load.
Now you're moving the goalposts. I'm not arguing that, all I'm doing is responding to you saying that they would still double Harden if CP3 was on the floor. I'm saying they wouldn't.
And still I disagree. IF they continue to do it with Ego open for three I really can't fathom them not doing it for CP3. Your argument that they also have to be a playmaker I just don't get, if a guy is open for three he doesn't have to playmake, he just has to hit a shot. Everyone's argument against Russ is that teams cheat off of him because he can't shoot and teams double off of him because he can't shoot, that is true. But what Russ does is STILL create an open shot by playmaking, he drives it into the paint and forces another player to rotate him to contest or clog the lane and he kicks it out, this is what the Rockets have been doing off doubles with Russ in the game and they still get open shots. Like, I'm not getting a team going "Well, we can leave Ego open because he can't playmake...but we can't leave CP3 open because he CAN playmake and create a shot for an open 3 point shooter..." because that open 3 point shooter IS Gordon. The play is successful if you get him an open shot. The Rockets problem, no matter what anyone says, is not offense. I get preached at about stats stats stats yet the Rockets offensive stats are as usual. Your point of "They would get good looks every time down the floor"...they do. They are the 2nd most 'efficient' offense in the NBA behind the Mavs, the only bad looks they get are from Harden and Russ taking bad shots (Harden just makes his bad shots far more than Russ does). They are still getting open looks from even Russ because of his drive and kicks and his playmaking. Russ does get easy shots from Harden's double and he also creates easy shots from the doubles. Teams simply don't care who they leave open as long as it's not Harden one on one...but they are mixing it up a lot more. Honestly, teams don't have time to gameplan for most regular season games I think Denver got away with it once (not twice) and the teams following Denver also got away with it so other teams just throw it out there but now you are seeing a lot more mixed things and some crazier defenses as they throw stuff at the wall.
I’m confused as to how having the best record in franchise history and then being up 3-2 in the conference finals only to have by far our 2nd most important piece get hurt leading to our loss is somehow considered concrete proof it would NEVER work. lol
he will get doubled no matter what. i keep telling yall if steph curry gets doubled with klay and KD teams are going to do anytjing to get it out of james hands. james was doubled last year as well. we still lost with the amazing cp3 who yall apparently think doesnt miss any shots. he is clearly playing with a chip on his shoulder this year and out to try and prove something, but if he was still here he would be just as bad as he was last year. i wish yall would get over it. westbrook is fine. the rockets are fine.
James loves playing with Russ. The Rockets are having a really nice season so far and are finally healthy. What is wrong with everyone?
