I have a legitimate question for all the liberals...

the BBS, mecca for liberals!!!!!!

 

Concur. Wild Bill, thanks for a reasoned and eloquent post from the right.

 

This medium favors fact. Repubs do well on radio and TV when they can spout any lie or falsehood and it is tough to respond in such a short time. Here, you can take a minute or two, use Google, and refute their assertions with relative ease.

 

Wow, are you serious? Did you just say that the Repubs do well on TV?? Radio I cant disagree with, but TV???!! COME ON NOW!! ABC, NBC ,CNN, 30 Minutes for Obama???? The man is kicking the **** out of McCain because of all the celebrity exposure he gets on TV. All the Repubs have is FoxNews on TV. Liberals have the TV market and every other market except radio.

 

He is kicking the crap out of republicans because people don't trust them anymore after Dubya.....

That is the main reason.

DD

 

Please explain then why the TV talking heads have been so kind to numerous McCain/Palin issues?

This has been delicately pointed out in MadMax's oft posted email regarding the two-faced nature of certain campaign facts...

Please don't make me reference each idiosynchrosy one by one - a generic explanation is fine...

 

^ from the same joker who professed to be "scar[ed]" of the "militant" obama youths on youtube.

 

Are you wearing your heart on your sleeve like most other liberals? This was not a personal attack on anyone, and you seem to make it that way any time someone expresses their feelings toward something you may disagree with. I guess that freedom is given in this forum. All in all, it all boils down to the fact that we all may disagree in this forum, but we all hate the Jazz right? That might be something you and I can agree on?

 

I see what yu did there.

 

Very good! I was thinking the same thing. I see kids go to school to pick on fights, hook up with girls, party, anything but STUDY and SAVE MONEY. Then they screw up their lives and refuse to make a change. Or adults who go to freakin CASINOS when they are POOR! Check that out!

This country is called a land of opportunity, not freebies. If you work hard enough, you can get yourself out of poorness. For instance, you can't feed your family? Food Stamps. You can't go to college? Pell Grant. Can you die of starvation and lack of shelter in this country? No you can't. Then why are you complaining? But some people are too lazy to take the step forward.

"Oh I have to work 2 jobs and raise 5 kids.." Well, after the first one and you know you can't handle another one, maybe you should NOT have another one and practice safe sex.

"Oh I was raised in the hood and had no chance for a good education"....And then "Damn look at that girl with that fine ass..." instead of "Man I better study for the next test"

I know there are hard working people who really try hard but still struggle. But I've seen alot who are just LAZY and complain. People in countries like Vietnam have to pay THOUSANDS just to come here to study. And then they have to pay out of state tuition with NO government aid. Some people here don't realize they are in a MUCH BETTER situation than many people around the world.

Just a rant.

 

Only poor kids do this, right? I KNOW! Man, poor kids should not be allowed to act like kids because they're poor and acting like a kid does not guarantee you future success when you're a kid. That dumb-ass 5 year old who doesn't learn his alphabet and stuff better not be POOR because he should NOT be acting like a kid when his future is on the line. Only kids whose parents have money should be allowed to act like kids. That makes sense to me, but poor people are just too dumb to get it.

That's totally what I'm sayin'! DAMN.

Yeah man! I've seen some statistics and almost all poor people steal a car and drive to Vegas and then gamble away all the money they took from my TAXES! DAMN! And I got statistics that show that almost all poor people bankrupt themselves at the roulette wheel, and no middle-class people ever gamble away their money ever! And rich people don't gamble at all! DAMN! Why can't poor people be smart like middle-class people are?

I know! Don't they know that this is called the land of opportunity? Man, if they just knew that this was called the land of opportunity by middle-class people, then they wouldn't be poor anymore! Clearly, this is their fault for not choosing better parents.

Damn, and there are middle-class kids who are so SMART and HARD-WORKING that they chose the RIGHT PARENTS and they never have to work themselves out of poorness and they are now attending college just after high school and their parents bought them a new car and are footing the bill for the tuition. Clearly, this demonstrates their work ethic and intelligence for choosing their parents so wisely.

DAMN! All these poor people are so dumb and lazy, why can't they be smart and hardworking like I obviously am? I mean, DAMN, if I wasn't so smart and hardworking it's not like I'd be typing on a computer right now, right? DAMN, instead I'd be out gambling away my money and making babies that I can't afford!

DAMN! This makes me so mad! I mean, if the cost has gone up that much to attend college, why don't these lazy and dumb poor people go out and get a college degree so they can make 439% more money and afford to go to college and get a college degree? DAMN. It's so simple but poor people are too dumb to understand this logic!

What? Oh ... yeah, just ignore that quote above, it's not important.

No one should ever complain about not starving to death and having some place with a roof! Because there's nothing else to complain about! No middle-class person would ever complain about anything if they weren't starving to death! And since middle-class people have all worked much harder and are much smarter than poor people, then it's obvious that they're doing the right thing by not complaining about starving to death! DAMN! I mean, do you ever hear a middle-class person say something dumb like, "I spent my money on medical bills and now I can't afford to eat anything except rice and oatmeal"? HELL NO, because a middle-class person would never complain about it as long as they weren't starving to death. Damn poor people.

And I agree, some people (poor people) are simply too lazy to do anything about not starving to death. I mean, even though they have two jobs and the cost of rent, and food, and gas, and just about everything is increasing, they don't save any money to get ahead! They just seem content not being able to get anywhere. Man, if that was a middle-class person, they would spend some money and move somewhere else, or would spend some money and get a better education! DAMN. Those poor people, why can't they be smart and hardworking like ME?! DAMN.

Also, there are a lot of them with only ONE job! Why don't they just go to college so they can be like the middle-class and have only one job and still scrimp and save and support themselves! DAMN. DAMN. Why can't they be as smart and hardworking as middle-class people and just get a better job?

I have statistics too! For every 100 poor people, 20 have two jobs, and 65 HAVE ONLY ONE JOB (omg), and 15 HAVE NO DAMN JOB AT ALL!!!!!!!! This just goes to show you, poor people are damn lazy and not very smart and just unwilling to put in the hard work and do like the middle-class does and get and education and move forward! DAMN. DAMN. DAMN.

Oh man ... DAMN! I'm so mad! I was raised in the burbs and that's not far from the hood and I managed to get an education just fine! I was smart and hardworking enough that I didn't have to worry about whether my parents could pay the bills or not! DAMN! I mean, if you are POOR you should never think about sex because you need to STUDY instead! DAMN! I was smart and hardworking about it so I made sure that I wasn't poor before I thought about sex! I was even smart and hardworking enough that I didn't even study sometimes and I STILL HAD TIME TO THINK ABOUT SEX! Damn, why can't poor kids be SMART and HARDWORKING like I was so they could think about sex and not study?

I know! DAMN! There are hardworking people who still struggle, but there are only like TWO of them! All the rest are dumb and lazy! I know, because those are the ones I see all the time! I never see the hardworking people who struggle, and that's because there are only TWO of them! When I am on my break from work, I always see a family of dumb lazy people making a bunch of noise with their kids! I mean, if poor people were SMART and HARDWORKING and WORKING HARD TO GET AHEAD, I'd never see them on my lunchbreak! And if they weren't so loud with so many kids I'd never notice them at all! DAMN! Why don't they just be smart and hardworking?

DAMN!

 

^^^^****ing ownage.

I'm in love with the thadeus.

 

Ok, I just have to ask this question...Why did you link only www.dictionary.com, and not the following link?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism

Because if you had, then everyone would have found the first two definitions that you conveniently left out:

1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

Oddly enough, these two definitions have already been mentioned in this thread as evidence of how Obama's plans are not socialism.


(Oh wait, I think I can answer my own question. Because liberals are just too lazy to spell out "socialism" in the search box.)

 

14 hours later and Behad still isn't TJ's friend.

 

I'm still skimming this thread and I liked what you have said in this thread but with much respect to you I find this statement rather dissapointing. Its true there are some very smart and well read people here but rather than concede defeat what's wrong with going out and becoming more well read yourself? You say your philosophy doesn't come from books then again reading more might actually strengthen and deepen your philosophy.

I consider myself well read but there are many here who are much more well read than me and much more knowledgeable in other subjects. Rather than come back and say well you have book smarts I have experience I take it as a challenge to improve myself when someone else shows more erudition than I do.

You seem to be painting a dichotomy between experience and book learning. The truth is we can all benefit from both.

I apologize if I appear to be picking on you and I have enjoyed reading some of your post and find your positions to be insightful especially as a small business owner myself.

 

I've skimmed through thread and some interesting post but I have to agree with the many other posters that the OP doesn't really have a grasp of what Socialism or Communism really is. Even the provided definition that OP has provided doesn't really get to what Socialism is except as relative to Capitalism.

First off pure Capitalism and Communism doesn't exist and can't exist in any practical sense. They both ultimately violate human nature, at least as its understood in the here in now. If your argument is that Socialism is an imperfect implementation of collectivism from Capitalism then we already are Socialist. In fact if you love the USA of we always have been Socialists since the writing of the Constitution that empowered the Federal government to raise taxes and levy tariffs.

"Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;"

So if you are asking why liberals love Socialism perhaps the bigger question is as Americans why do most of us love Socialism as there are very few out there advocating for a true Capitalistic society.

 

It's not about making everybody equal. It's about giving everybody an equal chance to become wildly rich and successful.


There's a difference, and I'll leave it at that.

 

I'm a fiscal libertarian, who has socially liberal views. I inherently believe crime and other random acts of violence on society are caused by individuals who are either poor, sick or hungry. Usually a combination of all three. When these people are pushed to the brink you see an escalation of crime such as as robbery, home robbery, muggings which all use some form of physical violence.

That being said, I believe a redistribution of wealth to help the poor would help eliminate some of this crime element prevalent in society today. I wouldn't mind paying 10% more in taxes if I could see dramatic decreases in crime. I have seen these socialist type governments work in Scandinavia and I see how happy and safe those citizens are.

To help the poor through government handouts doesn't necessarily mean higher taxes, but rather can be achieved through cutbacks in certain governmental departments like the military, foreign affairs, unnecessary wars and and the recent fiscal bailout.

 

It's a trip. Like being in a time warp. What amuses me is that most of those posting a rant about the "return" of the two ideologies have little to no memory of the world that existed when they were such a real part of the discussion.

 

Just another thought. For Capitalism to work there has to be some redistribution of wealth as the over concentration of wealth with a few dooms Capitalism since the market becomes distorted. As a system of allocating resources Capitalism itself strives to redistribute wealth by encouraging the transfer of wealth. If the point of Capitalism was just for a few to hoard wealth the system would break down very quickly.