I used to respect the spurs because they so closely resembled our championship teams, even having Mario Elie. I lost that respect this year when I saw how dirty they are now. It's a shame, but I'm afraid we as Rocket fans have been reduced to talking about the "good ol' days" much like Celtic, Sixer, and Laker fans. We haven't mattered in 10 years. That makes me sick to my stomach. As far as the "Texas pride" thing, that's great for college sports (I pull for all Texas colleges over all non-Texas colleges) but not professional sports.
Bruce Bowen and Manu Ginobili can be annoying wiht their antics, but for the most part I love their team. Great balance on both ends of the court; intelligent, high IQ players. And there isn't a player in the league who's game I admire more than Tim Duncan. They just play great basketball. And the charge that they whine a lot is silly. Every good team whines (Detroit Pistons?); people are just looking for a reason to hate on the Spurs because they win so much.
ive always respected the spurs as a team, duncan and their coach - i thought they were one of the classier franchises around. ive never rooted for them, but ive never had a problem w/ them either. but after this year i no longer think that. i hate to admit it, but right now i hate them more than the jazz (if i am banned for this i understand). the horry cheap shot and bowen going out and intentionally trying to hurt people were the final straw - there should be an asterix next to this championship - they dont deserve it - it is tainted b/c of the horry cheap shot and ensuing b.s. suspensions. i hate how whenever you bring up bowen people just say "oh, he plays hard and thats why you dont like him". that is not the case at all - i respect hard play, but bowen is dirty - there is a difference - if you go out and intentionally try to hurt people you are not playing "hard" - you are playing like a dirty little b****, and that is what bowen is. i hate to see that kind of crap get rewarded - he should be kicked out of the league - there is no denying that he goes out and intentionally tries to hurt people - the proof is in the barrage of injuries he has caused to others. he is the new karl malone. my hatred for the jazz was primarily based on the fact that they would go out and intentionally try to hurt people and that is what bowen does. and ive never cared for spurs fans. they are the most unknowledgeable basketball fans around. they constantly whine about every little thing, especially their perception that they never get any national attention or respect. and they have no objectivity - their sports radio commentators said that ginobili and parker were top 8 mvp candidates. they can never admit when they loose to a better team - as far as the average spurs fan is concerned, they only loose because they beat themselves. despite the fact that national polls show the vast majority to think bowen is dirty, the spurs fans who call into the talk shows overwhelmingly say he isnt and whenever one of the more objective fans calls in and says that he is sometimes dirty or does indeed engage in cheap shots the commentators either jump all over them or play a prerecorded tape of a baby crying.
The Rockets were not in a situation where two players for an opponent's team were thrown out of a pivotal game five, however. If they were I'm sure I would try to rationalize it, but I would be wrong. In 1999 there were was a shortened season. The Rockets didn't win a championship in a shortened season. The Rockets won two championships in two 82 game seasons, and didn't catch a break in any of their series thanks to an arbitrary and stupid rule. Michael Jordan played in 1995 and was defeated in six games by the team the Rockets swept. If someone wants to think the Rockets championships were "tainted," that's fine, but they would be wrong...or at least would not have as much to base that conclusion on as you can in 1999 and this year.
actually, "humble" and "knowledgeable" would be two of the absolute LAST words i would use to describe the average spurs fan. most spurs fans didnt watch basketball until they won their first title and they have very little knowledge of the game or the nba - just listen to 790 next time you are in town - their fans are morons. when they traded tim duncans overpaid backup (malik rose) for a starting center people were actually calling in crying and saying that they were going to return their season tickets - that the spurs management were classless backstabbers - pop had to come on both 790 and 1200 to take calls from fans - i think ownership made him do it - he is a no nonsense guy and was clearly agitated w/ having to explain to all those dumbasses that if you can trade a little used backup for a starter, you do it.
http://www.nba.com/history/finals/champions.html There's the official list of champions from the NBA... I'm not seeing a *. If you're talking about majority opinion, we'll see... but I'm not sure someone who started their post with "I absolutely detest the Spurs" is in a position of objectivity to make that judgment. For what it's worth, I seem to remember a year-and-a-half ago you assuring us that the Steelers' Super Bowl win would go in the books as tainted and not legitimate because of officiating gripes, but if you've watched the reaction since that point, it hasn't happened that way.
Cat, I'm not going to get into a discussion or argument with you about the Sperms because your Sperm homerism is very well-documented here. I will only ask you one question: Is Bruce Bowen dirty or not? Explain your answer. Thanks.
See, this is embarassing. And I'm not picking on you, Manny — lots of Rockets fans use this logic. And I completely agree with you as it pertains to MJ! However, you can't use this logic and turn around and claim the 1999 Spurs title is tainted. It's the same principle, yet you're contradicting yourself based on your biases. Jordan didn't start the season, but he did finish it, and he was completely healthy and ready for the playoffs, which were the same length as always. He/the Bulls just got beat, and the Rockets beat the team that beat Chicago. Sound familiar? The Spurs didn't start on time in 1999, much like Jordan didn't, but they finished the season and went through the identical postseason format. If you're going to say 1999 wasn't a fair representation because teams didn't have 82 games of the regular season (personally, I don't think it matters), how can you turn around and use the "Jordan was in the league" logic when he was only in it for about 15 games? The thing about 1999... I lurked here and on other boards. Games were sold out across the league for contenders - actually, to a greater extent (percentage-wise) than they are today! Interest in this town was through the roof after the Pippen signing. If fans understood that season was tainted, why did anyone care at all, much less enough to spend significant money? Why didn't fans talk about the * before the season? It's simple — no one breathed the * until a team they didn't like won, then they used it as an excuse to make themselves feel better. But we're better than that.
You're kidding, right? You won't as much as engage in a discussion with me about the Spurs because I'm a fan (in your mind, clouding me from making an objective judgment). Yet, you expect your argument to be taken seriously, when you prefaced it with "I absolutely detest the Spurs"? It's the exact same principle that you're using to discredit me, just the other direction!
Well let's take the opnion of one the most revered former Rockets.. fair enough? Someone we all respect and admire..Mario Elie.. many times people have called in (including myself) to 610 on Wednesdays and asked him if bruce was a dirty player. Each time mario responded no... there you go manny
"Oh what a load of horse hooey! Tinman I expect better from you. You and I both know that the Spurs are reaping the benefits of their being a sound, smart organization. While Houston fans have stood by, drank the red koolaid and praised Les & CD for their inept mediocrity for past dozen years since the Rudy T championships, the Spurs have methodically developed and EXECUTED a vision of what they want in their team and their franchise. While the Rockets under CD & Les were spending year after year in the NBA lotto a coming up empty, the Spurs used their late round draft picks to pickup guys like Ginnobli & Parker who can not only play but play at a high level. They have managed to do what the Rockets have failed to do: build a winning team around Duncan. Here, Yao is in his 5th year and counting waiting for the Rockets to do likewise. I suggest that he start growing a beard while he waits. In Houston, it's been far far easier for everyone to indulge in self-delusion about the Rockets being better because we have two superstars blah blah blah. We are better than Utah - we could take Dallas and we can beat the Spurs yada yada yada...This entire town is full of folks who swallow anything Les & Co put out there - now we're going to get entertaining, uptempo (read: not championship) basketball. I can hardly wait... The recent JVG episode is a perfect example of the bizzaro world inhabited by the Rockets organizations and their red koolaid swigging fans where a damn good head coach gets shown door because it's easier for the owner and the organization to hide their mistakes by scapgoatting rather facing up to reality, biting the bullet and making the tough decisions necessary to undo 12 years of stumbling about the NBA wilderness. And the last time I looked, nobody ever confused Rick Adelman with Moses... As for the Spurs going after title #4 with Tim Duncan, Ric Flair used to say: "Whether you like or don't like it, You better LEARN To LOVE IT because this is the way it's going to be from now on..."
1999 was a 50 game season. 1995 was an 82 game season. Jordan is one player who returned and had no direct impact on the Rockets championship, since he didn't even get to the finals. 1999 - There were less regular season games played than at any time in the NBA's history since the late 1940s, before the league was even called the National Basketball Association.
What do Bowen and his actions have to do with anything? I have an opinion on that, but it's a subject for another discussion. Thing is, I can find you hundreds of players in the history of the league — many of which played on championship teams — that many fans considered "dirty." Do all of those championships get a * as well? I'm talking about the lack of logic in expecting the majority opinion to be that two Spurs championships aren't legitimate. You're talking about one player you don't like, and giving your reasoning for disliking San Antonio. That's all fine and good, but it serves no purpose to the point I was debating, so I'm not going to take the bait and go away from your initial point.
Personally I think it's perfectly fine to root for one and only one home team, but hatred towards all other teams not named Rockets is a bit too much. Now that Robinson and Hakeen has retired for years. It's ok to hate the flopping of Gino, or even the classless act of Horry. You may not like it, Duncan is the best big man in the league right now and he is certainly somebody Yao Ming should really learn from. I used to hate the Jazz, but now that Stockton/Malone is long gone. I kinda like them because Boozer and Williams are great players. I hate to say it, but the result speaks for itself. They are better than Tracy+Yao. Talent-wise, Yao and T-mac is far superior. Maybe they are soft, not properly coached (offensively)...I don't know the reason, but I am disappointed they lost again. But the post-season is still underway and I think it's fun if you can cheer a team that you like the most and it would be much more fun. As a basketball fan, why put so much hate on basketball teams and players in the best basketball league in the world?
I was just saying to my wife the other day that I sometimes wonder if God is still punishing the Rockets for making Rashard Lewis cry. I guess that doesn't have much to do with the Spurs, though...
