Yes, KG is overrated and overpaid. I don't buy the argument his team has been so bad all these years. I remember one playoff series when Troy Hudson was really good (scored about 35 points in one game). I'm not saying they were like Kobe and Shaq, but Hudson was a good enough sidekick to allow him to carry the team past the first round. The FIRST round! That year when they made it to the Conference Finals, he had a good group of supporting cast, but still lost. But it's not his fault, his teammates are not good enough. Excuses, excuses. I can't wait until the Finals. I want to see Boston lose. I wonder what excuses will be next? Maybe Pierce and Allen are older and not at their prime anymore.
I've met KG several times and he's one of the most polite, humble, considerate professional athletes I've ever met. And as I used to work with about half of the NBA, I've met a whole lot of players. KG was literally the only player who recognized me the second time we met. It's amazing to me you think this guy is classless. As for his actions in Minnesota, I can only imagine how it must feel to be one of the best players in the league and stuck with one of the worst franchises in the league for the entirety of your career. It doesn't surprise me that now that he's free of them we see some signs that he resents that franchise. And yeah, I know he made more than 100 million dollars there, but the guy is a competitor. Also, I find it absolutely amazing that you respect Kobe but hate KG. Kobe is far and away the most arrogant player in the league. The guy makes up nicknames for himself for cryin' out loud. But hey, if you like 'Black Mamba'....
It doesn't matter....someone will have an excuse on why the guys rarely wins. I remember that Troy hudson game also.....i think it was against the Lakers. Garnett has been in the league longer than Tin Duncan or Dirk yet his shining accomplishment is the one year they made it out of the first round. A true superstar is able to will his team to victory in the early rounds of the playoffs. KG is a great player, but he has proven he is not a guy you can build a franchise around. Icehouse, You challenged me and I am still waiting on a response.
so what ? hes also been on more talented teams than KG throught his career. nash hasn't won **** despite having some of the most talented teams in the league on the suns, so please shut that **** up. KG >>>> nash
Hmm, nice of you to leave out that he also got 9 dimes a game in that series. I don't consider almost getting a trip-dub average bad.... Yep, bad series. This was KG's first playoff appeareance and his second year in the league. He also got 4 dimes, 1 steal and 1 block a game, hitting 47% of his shots against a frontcourt of Hakeem, Barkley and K.Willis. You think that is a bad series for a 20 yr old carrying the team in his 2nd year, against two HOF bigs (one which is arguably the best defensive center ever) and a team that went to the WCF? Compare that to Dirk's first playoff run where he hit 23 and 8 a game on 43% shooting....
In 01/02 Wally put up 19, 4 and 3 a game. Finley put up 20, 5 and 3 a game that season, and was a better defender. I repeat, Wally is not a better player than Finley...he is not. Get off the drugs. FYI, that was Wally's last season being completely healthy: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/szczewa02.html Have you even looked at the numbers Billups put up in MN? He was still considered a bust then. How much MN basketball have you actually watched? Even a basic basketball fan knows Billups didn't blow up until he got to Detroit. How do you think they got him for so little?? http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/billuch01.html Now when he was in MN. Again, did you actually watch him in MN..ever? Yeah, Wally, Billups and Rasho = Finley, Nash, Raef & Van Exel. Right.... KG put up 24, 19, 5 and almost 2 spg and bpg in that series. How is that getting destroyed? Nope, because KG isn't the scorer that Dirk is. He helps in other ways. In the one season where he actually had help (with Sam & Sprewell), they beat the Kings in 7 and he had a series average of 24, 15, 4 dimes, 1.7 spg and 3.4 bpg. Do you really think that all around effort isn't as good as an extra 7 points a game? Oh, he also put up 32, 21, 2, 4 and 5 to clinch the series. http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200405190MIN.html
Because he got outscored by his counterpart by almost 10 points every game, Because he let his team get swept in a 4/5 matchup. Letting a suposedly inferior player who was in his 4th season(while KG was in his 7th) average 33 and 15 and sweep your team is getting your ass handed to you. Dirk first playoff series he and the Mavs did something that Kevin Garnett has yet to do.......they won a series against a team were they were the underdog. Dirk first two playoff series came in 2001 where he was in his 3rd year in the league. They beat the John Stockton, Karl Malone and the Utah Jazz in 5 games after being down two games to nothing. Dirk Nowitski against the Utah Jazz in the 2001 NBA playoffs Game 1 7-20 20 points 12 rebounds Mavs Lose Game 2 3-11 15 points 4 rebounds Mavs Lose Game 3 9-19 33 points 10 rebounds Mavs win Game 4 10-19 33 Points 10 rebounds Mavs win Game 5 3-11 18 points 4 rebounds Mavs Win Series Average 23.8 ppg 8 rebounds. Icehouse, Ive already established that people such as yourself continually make excuses for KG's failures. There is no way anyone with a straight face would say Dirk and KG's first playoff series were comparable. Dirk willed his team to victory against two hall of famers in a series they were down 2-0. Kevin Garnett let his team get swept and was a non factor. Lets recap. So far you have asked me to show you any playoff series were Kevin Garnett was as bad as Dirk was against Houston and Golden State and I have shown you three. Ive asked you to show me some games were Kevin Garnett had 50 points in a game 5 of a Western Conference Final or had 38 and 15 in a game 7 against the Spurs and you have failed. You have said Dirk wasn't a clutch playoff performer and didn't show up in the playoffs and ive shown you mutliple clips of Dirk hitting huge shots in playoff games. Ive shown you the one time Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitski went head to head and Dirk averaged 33 points and 15 rebounds in leading his team to a sweep. Despite all this evidence, people like yourself will continue to blame Kevin Garnetts teamates on why this guy is one of the biggest underachievers in all of pro sports. You guys point to one year...and one series has somehow thats proof of KGs greatness when guys like Steve Nash, Tim Duncan, Dirk, Shaq, Wade and Kobe have done it numerous times in the playoffs.
Hmm, so having better help had nothing to do with Dirk winning that series? And again, having help had nothing to do with him winning that series? And again, having help had nothing to do with them winning that series? Finley against the Utah Jazz in the 2001 NBA playoffs Game 1 10-23 26 points 4 rebounds Mavs Lose Game 2 10-23 32 points 8 rebounds Mavs Lose Game 3 2-14 8 points 4 rebounds Mavs win Game 4 7-13 20 Points 13 rebounds Mavs win Game 5 13-24 33 points 12 rebounds Mavs Win Nash against the Utah Jazz in the 2001 NBA playoffs Game 1 6-11 20 points 7 assists Mavs Lose Game 2 6-13 20 points 6 assists Mavs Lose Game 3 6-15 16 points 7 assists Mavs win Game 4 8-15 27 Points 7 assists Mavs win Game 5 3-11 9 points 7 assists Mavs Win Howard against the Utah Jazz in the 2001 NBA playoffs Game 1 5-11 14 points 9 rebounds Mavs Lose Game 2 6-15 17 points 7 rebounds Mavs Lose Game 3 8-18 18 points 11 rebounds Mavs win Game 4 3-11 6 Points 5 rebounds Mavs win Game 5 6-15 19 points 8 rebounds Mavs Win Thank you for clearly showing my point. In this playoff series, where Dirk clearly had a poor clinching game (shot 3-11, only 4 boards...he plays no defense so his main benefit is his scoring)...the Mavs advanced because Finley (a SG by the way) got 33 points and tripled Dirk on the boards!!!! Juwon Howard outplayed Dirk in the clinching game as well. Nash, Finley and Howard all played well in that series. Dirk had tons of help to carry his behind, as usual. Now again, this is not to say that he didn't ball...but he balled with help...something KG only had in one season in MN. He will his team to victory when he had a worse clinching game than two of his teammates? It looks like Finley willed his team to victory. The only person making excuses here is you...in not willing to admit that Dirk had tons of help on his teams while KG hasn't. No, you showed me one. I don't think a near double-double in your first playoffs against Hakeem, Barkley and Willis frontline is bad, especially shooting 47%. Please explain to me how this is bad. I don't see how putting up a near trip-dub average in another playoff series is bad. Please explain how that is bad. No, I only showed you a 20-20-5 game....but somehow that isn't as good as 38 and 15 to you. Please show me where I said Dirk was not a clutch playoff performer? I asked for examples of where KG completely b****ed out like Dirk did in the Rockets, Heat and Warrior series. Yes, and completely ignored the great numbers KG put up, or the fact that Dirk had Finley, Nash and Van Exel while KG had Billups (worse), Wally (worse) and insert scrub. And people like you will continue to ignore the impact of Dirk's teammates, and list stats as support that clearly show said teammates had better series clinching games...yet somehow say Dirk willed his team to victory when he shot 3-11 and another dude scored 30+ points and tripled him in rebounds...lol.... Yep, we point to the two seasons where KG has had comparable help to when all of the above players had playoff success. Shaq has never been on a bad team. Neither has Duncan. Kobe has not been out of the first round without considerable help. Dirk has never been on a bad team. When KG had help he went to the WCF, and now he is on the best team in the league (record wise).
I have conceded that Dirk was not good against Houston and Golden State. In Dirk two worst series he averaged 21 and 8 and in the other 19 and 11. One of them his team happened to win. In the three series of KG that i highlighted he averaged 18 and 10, 15 and 7, and 17 and 9. The Timberwolves lost all three. No matter how you try and spin it (and ive gotta admit you are a master at spin, you should be KG's publicist) Dirk's stats in his two worst series are better than Garnetts. You scoring is supposed to go up in the playoffs....if you are a real superstar. You play more minutes, take more shots, and go to the foul line more. Averaging 17-22 points just isn't going to get it done against the best teams in the league. KG has been consistent in not being able to will his team to victory in the playoffs...except for one year. Instead of building on this one year, the Timberwolves didn't even make the playoffs the next year. Im sure you have some excuses lined up on why Kevin Garnett and the Wolves couldn't build on their one good year. He had great teamates in 2003-04, but somehow the next year they weren't great anymore. If Wally was so bad, then why was he an NBA all Star in 2002 and Mike Finley wasn't??????????????????? Dirk and Kevin Garnett went head to head with two evenly matched teams.....and Dirk absolutely murdered him. Kevin Garnett was good.....Dirk Nowitski was great. its been my entire argument. Dirk wins playoff series. Kevin Garnett doesn't win playoff series.
What am I spinning, the fact that Dirk had more help than KG? Do you still think Dirk willed his team to a victory over Utah in that series when he shot 4-12 or whatever with 4 boards and Finley had 33 and 12? This is just one example of his help stepping up. So if you don't score more but rebound and pass more then you suck? Basketball is all about scoring? So 30 and 8 is better than 19, 10 and 8 dimes, with almost 2 steals and blocks a game? Will his team to victory like Dirk did in that Jazz series you pointed out? Dirk had great teammates when he won the MVP and somehow he wasn't that great blowing a #1 seed either....right? I have posted the stats for that seasons and Finley had better numbers and it is obvious to anyone who watches basketball that Finley is a better defender. I have no idea why Wally made the all-star game and Finley didn't. But I don't think you will find anyone to agree with you that Wally has ever been a better player than Finley. One has help, one doesn't. We have refuted that he destroyed him argument many times. Keep repeating the same garbage to yourself if you like....
Where have you refuted that letting your supposedly weaker counterpart average 33 and 15 is not getting destroyed??????????????????? Listening to how hard you make excuses for him..... Kevin Garnett must have played with a bunch of midgets and WNBA players. Listening to you I have absolutely no clue how the 2002 Minnesota Timberwolves won 51 games. Im posting numbers and facts.....you are posting opinions. Ive named numerous players that were very good NBA players that have played with Garnett. Somehow these guys suck when they play with KG, yet they are badassess for other teams. Maybe you all are right.....in addition to not being a great playoff performer, KG also isn't one of those players that make his teamates better.
boston will lose neways to a very pissed off piston team, or a really strong perf from LBJ let the KG thing go
Um, in showing that KG put up 20+ a game with like 18 boards a game and better numbers in every other statistical category. It is your opinion that scoring means more than rebounding, assists, steals, blocks, etc. You still have yet to show that he had better teammates than Dirk did. You say “look, Wally was an all-star”, yet Finley had better numbers in that same season. You actually think Billups was a good player in MN, which clearly shows you don’t know much about those teams. It’s not an opinion that a player got destroyed when all of his stats are better besides scoring? Your opinion tells you that Dirk willed his team to victory with 18 points (on 4-12 shooting) and 4 boards in Game 7 when Finley put up 33 and 12 (a SG and Juwon Howard put up 18 and 9 in the same game? And these are what you call facts No, you named one oft injured player that had one quality season that was still worse statistically than Finley’s, the guy Dirk had. You named a PG that didn’t start playing well until he got to Detroit. LOL, and Dirk does?
I think so. Two things I rarely hear anyone argue are that Dirk is clutch (especially after the last two playoff runs) or that he hasn’t had considerable help.
1st, Shaq rode Wade's back to win title #4. 2nd, Shaq was the landslide playoff MVP and obviously the key player for all 3 recent Lakers titles. Saying Kobe was equally reponsible is like saying Pippen is equally responsible for the Bulls 6 rings because he was the second fiddle every time. Again, Kobe has shown exactly how much of a team leader as his team's man in the playoffs as McGady has. Basically none. Forget their individual scoring lines, how have they guided their teams. Both have also had big series leads and still lost. Over the last 8 games the Mavs have played Dirk has taken a huge hit on his playoff clutchness. They have been overwhelming favorites against an undermanned Heat team they were up 2-0 on, and then followed that up with the 2nd time in NBA history where a #1 seed lost to open up and first time an MVP on the best team had his team to start off with a playoff exit. Dirk does have a pretty good playoff track record--but these are very ugly blemishs right now. Dirk has had the best and deepest supporting cast of any superstar in the league the last 2 years--yet they lost like 8 of the last 10 games that really mattered. That is not the kind of thing Bird or Magic would have let happen early, mid or late in their career. Also, KG has never been the scorer than Dirk has. But KG is better in assists, board and defense. If you are going to compare them you need total lines, and even this doesn't fully weight KG's defense. I would say overall, yes, Dirk has the better playoff reputation, but Dirk has major warts from the last 2 years. Both of them have legacies up for graps and if Boston wins the title KG is certainly ahead of Dirk. Legacies are also at stake for Kobe, Tmac, Yao, etc. Two younger pups, Wade and Lebron, already have shown superior playoff leadership than this group.
