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I hate Jimmy Williams

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by SFrancis3, Apr 21, 2002.

  1. SFrancis3

    SFrancis3 Member

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    I have grown more and more appreciative of Larry Dierker after every Astros game this year.

    First off, I am sick and tired of our best batting average hitter being in the 6 hole, and Brad Ausmus sucking up out in the 2 hole. What the hell is this all about? What threw this over the top was Vizcaino and Zaun as our 1-2 hitters today...it made me sick.

    Another thing today that makes me root for the Giants in the 9th, is Williams decision to pinch hit for Mlicki and not let him finish his complete game shutout. He has only allowed ONE, I REPEAT ONE, Baserunner today and Jimmy won't let him finish the game. It wasn't the pitching count, as Mlicki was at 91 pitchers. Give Mlicki some confidence that when he is pitching good that he doesn't have to worry about being pulled. All this after the Astros using almost everyone in the bullpen last night.

    I hope they lose today.
     
  2. haven

    haven Member

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    1. You used the term "batting average." Don't ever, ever do that when assessing the production of a player in a roster spot. Use OBP, if you're interested in table-setting, slugging, if you're interested in table-clearing, or OPS if you want to talk about total production.

    2. You're completely right that it's r****ded to hit Ward behind Jose "I completely suck" Vizcaino.

    EDIT: HOLY ****ING ****! I just realized, Jimy Williams is the single stupidest baseball person to ever live. Jose "I completely suck" Vizcaino has a .319 career OBP. Players that bad hurt you by playing at all... and as your lead-off hitter? OH MY GOD. Jimy needs to be fired immediately. No questions asked. Bye bye, moron!
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    Jimy Williams doesn't appear to like tinkering with the lineup order (unlike in Boston?). That is, when Biggio has a day off, whoever replaces him will bat in the #1 spot. Similarly, both catchers bat in the #2 spot (I actually like this move), both 3rd basemen bat 7th, and both SS's bat in the #8 spot.

    Players have said they like the consistency, but I don't know how much that matters.
     
  4. SFrancis3

    SFrancis3 Member

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    Haven,

    Ausmus OBP=.320
    Ward OBP=.380

    Williams must be doing somethign wrong when you have good SP, good bullpen (sometimes), and a bunch of stud hitters to have a 8-10 record.

    What about him pulling Mlicki today?
     
  5. Major

    Major Member

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    Williams must be doing somethign wrong when you have good SP, good bullpen (sometimes), and a bunch of stud hitters to have a 8-10 record.

    The problem is, thus far, we don't have a good bullpen or good starting pitching (thus far). We have the worst ERA in the league outside of the Rockies in Coors Field.

    Our hitting has been fine, and we've been scoring plenty of runs (top 3 or so in the league). I don't like Williams' moves thus far relating to the pitchers, but I've been very happy with his lineups and defensive moves.
     
  6. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    I am thrilled with Jimy's handling of the pitching staff, particularly the youngsters. It makes perfect sense that he's limiting their pitch counts - it lessens the risk of serious injury to one of our young studs. Maybe Mlicki as a vet didn't need to be worried about pitch count, but Williams saw an opportunity for insurance runs. I can't fault him for trying to scratch out every run we get - 4 runs leads can be blown. And I could care less whether Mlicki's feelings are hurt after being pulled from a 1-hitter. I can't see how that will impact our record this season.

    As for demoting Everett and bring up an extra pitcher, it makes perfect sense. We basically have 3 dead-weight SSs, wasting a roster spot. There are very few games that we might need a 6th pinch hitter, especially with the quality of our everyday lineup.

    Guys like Viscaino and Zaun, though, need to be hitting at the end of the order. I hate seeing our worst hitters utilized in the most important lineup spots.
     
  7. Major

    Major Member

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    Maybe Mlicki as a vet didn't need to be worried about pitch count, but Williams saw an opportunity for insurance runs. I can't fault him for trying to scratch out every run we get - 4 runs leads can be blown.

    This wasn't a good percentage move. Let's assume that the pinch hitter would give us an extra run (also not a likely thing). Which is more likely:

    (A) Mlicki gives up 4 runs in the 9th after dominating all game?

    (B) The Bullpen gives up 5 runs in the 9th after being overused and destroyed over the last week?

    I'd take my chances with the pitcher who you KNOW is pitching well.

    And I could care less whether Mlicki's feelings are hurt after being pulled from a 1-hitter. I can't see how that will impact our record this season.

    Suppose Mlicki hadn't given up the hit. Would you have taken him out of a perfect game, on the off chance you could have a 5-0 lead instead of a 4-0 lead? Personal achievements, while meaningless in the W-L dept, are important for other reasons. Mlicki deserved the chance to finish the best game of his career.
     
  8. right1

    right1 Member

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    Let him pitch. Has Mlicki ever pitched a CG shutout? Probably not a 1 hitter!!!
     
  9. haven

    haven Member

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    Problem is, Sammy... after abusing Pedro in Boston, he's not pitching Roy enough.

    Look, I'm paranoid about pitcher abuse. Just ask Dylan - we both approach the game very similarly, in that we buy all the sabermetric crap, generally. But he thinks I'm a nut about protecting pitchers.

    Well, even I think you can throw a young pitcher for more than Williams has. I don't think Oswalt should average more than about 100-105 pitches per game. One of my chief complaints with Dierker, was that Wade and Roy would often go waaaay up there. I don't think he should ever throw more than about 110. But taking him out after 80something is peculiar. There's no evidence to suggest that he needs to throw less than 100 or so.
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    I am FAR more appreciative of the way Jimy runs a team than I am of the way Larry does.
     
  11. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    From what I remember, haven, Oswalt was interviewed after that game and said he was running out of juice. He probably communicated that to Jimy, or Jimy picked up on it. Sometimes a pitcher will just get tired early.

    Major, I can't see how Mlicki deserved anything. He's paid very well (overpaid, actually) to play baseball once every 5 days, and pitch when the manager tells him to. I remember Bobby Cox taking out one of his pitchers back in the early 90s who, at the time, was throwing a no-hitter. He might have done it twice. I don't think that made him a bad manager.
     
  12. Major

    Major Member

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    Major, I can't see how Mlicki deserved anything. He's paid very well (overpaid, actually) to play baseball once every 5 days

    I think players should be treated as more than commodities. If Daryle Ward has hit 4 home runs and has a chance for a 5th, I don't take him out for a defensive substitution with 4 or 5 run lead. I guess it's just different philosophies.

    I remember Bobby Cox taking out one of his pitchers back in the early 90s who, at the time, was throwing a no-hitter. He might have done it twice. I don't think that made him a bad manager.

    Maybe not a bad manager, but I'd still say it was a bad decision.

    On the Oswalt thing, he also said in that interview that he wanted to and thought he could go all 9 innings.
     
  13. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Contributing Member
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    My theory on this is not that Williams necessarily believe that Mlicki couldn't handle the 9th, or that he might get injured if he threw too many pitches, but that Billy Wagner desperately needed to have an inning in which he didn't pitch poorly. He (Jimy) saw an opportunity to put Wagner in the game with a 4 run lead for only one inning with no one on base. That is an excellent time to put a struggling pitcher in, because they have little worry and can relax and make their pitches. If Jimy was just trying to build Wagner's confidence and get him comfortable out on the mound, then I have no problem with this move last night.
     

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