I don't understand.... I need help!

Okay, I want to address just part of you post, because all of the rest is just the same stuff you've been rehashing over and over for the last day or two.

First, I still ask that you to produce a link to a story that verifies that there were indeed 15,000 votes thrown out in Palm Beach County. Make it something that actually has verified information and not just some assertions of Republican spin doctors.

Okay, you defintely need to provide your source for this, because it is a patently false statement. Come on. Tell us where you pulled this little factoid from. "The DUDE's @$$ Herald"?

Oh come on! Buchanan has openly said that he thinks a re-vote is a bad idea! He agrees with your position! How is that being a Bush-hater? When he says that he believes that a lot of Gore's votes probably went to him, he just knows that most of the American public is smart enough to know that he wouldn't do that well in a liberal Jewish community.

Okay, please, please, please, please take off your Republican blinders! I'm begging you! I'm a registered Independent. My wife is a registered Independent. The vast majority of my family and friends are registered Independents. And guess what? None of us want to vote for the racist candidate!

Contrary to the propaganda that you're spewing right now, most Independents are moderates and typically vote for Republicans or Democrats depending on the individual candidate. Don't insult everybodies intelligence by trying to conveniently group Independent voters with a racist candidate en masse just to support your weak argument.

The bottom line is, only a few hundred votes seperate the 2 candidates in Florida. Even if only a third of Buchanan's votes in that county were meant for Gore, then Gore would have enough to win. I won't even get into the possible ramifications of the 19,000 discarded ballots. This election will be tainted due to the general mismanagement by the Florida electors.

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I'm so sick of all this I think I'm ready to scream! Can I move to Europe now? I wonder what apartment rents are going for...in Amsterdam!

But seriously, I must make a couple of points:

Someone punching the wrong hole in the ballot is not the Government's problem. (This is coming from someone who often votes Democratic, folks). Each voter is responsible for their own vote. You are supposed to read the ballot carefully and make sure you are punching the right hole before you do it. When I voted on Tuesday, I took it slow and made sure I was punching the correct hole each time. If a voter doesn't do that, that is the voter's problem, not the Governments'.

HOWEVER

If it turns out that the ballot itself is illegal that's another story. If the design of this so-called "confusing ballot" in West Palm Beach violated the state election laws (and how the state election commision would OK it if it was against the law is beyond me), then that's a whole new ballgame.

Just my humble opinion, yet again!

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I am the b*stard son of LHutz.

Huh?

Right!

[This message has been edited by RocketMan Tex (edited November 10, 2000).]

 

For the record, I did not vote for Bush or Gore. I also don't believe in the thought of "voting for the less of 2 evil".

I totally agree that a re-vote is not the solution and should not be considered because of it's potential for corruption. What is the solution... I don't know.

Not for a minute, do I believe that if the Reps are in the Dems' shoes, they would not react in the same manner. So, stop calling out the Dems when you know damn well that your Reps will do the same things.

Clutch, what you said was low, I am surprised to see that from you. Stupid people DO have the right to vote. If we as a nation decide that stupid people do not have the right to vote, where do you draw the stupid line? SAT less than 600? Nope, too low for us "smart" people who have a college degree. How about SAT < 900? Nah, too low for us UT/Aggie graduates. SAT < 1400? Mmmm... still too low for us "genii". Sooner or later, it will hit a mark where we will be left out.

DUDE and others, quit your b****ing about "I have no problem with the ballot, no one else should" in your every other post. A lot of people do not find the "N" word offensive, should the Blacks accept that? Not everyone see the same thing in the same manner.

I get no thrills of seeing the Dems rally for a win (no thrills if the Reps won either). I am just sick of seeing posts after posts saying how "stupid people should not get to vote" or "the ballot is not confusing to me".

Yes, the Dems (esp Jackson) bothered me too by dealing the "it's a racial thing" card.

I really didn't have a problem with the Rep backers of accusing the Dem's trying to "find anything that will stick" or accusing them of "recounting until the Dem's win". The problem I have is with the treatment of the alleged "stupid" people and not recognizing the fact that the ballot maybe confusing for some voters, especially the elderly.

I am not here to bash the Rep backers, because they do have legitimate concerns like the "corruption as a result of re-vote" that Clutch and others have raised.

As far as splitting the nation, I think it already has.

Why can't this debate be as reasonable and thought provoking as the "Religious" threads that we had before?

[This message has been edited by MoonBus (edited November 10, 2000).]

 

MoonBus,
What you fail to say when you attack me was that BOTH parties OKAYED this ballot. It was in the Paper it was mailed to them. They knew what it would look like.

Gore has said today, that if Bush wins Florida he will recount New hampshire since Bush won that by 7,000 votes. You can bet if that happens Bush will recount Oregon, New MExico, etc.. It is an ugly situation to keep b****ing about the stupid, yes I said STUPID, voters that couldnt vote right.

Both guys should stick to Florida's recount and absentee ballots. But Gore SAID that if he loses Florida he will try and tie up the Florida Electorals so they cant vote for Bush when they meet in December.

Whoever loses the vote total in Florida needs to do what is good for the country and concede. They will obviously be the Front-Runner in their party in four years. But what is going on right now with legal action threatened BY GORE does absolutely NO good.

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"Her Box Started Buzzing Ever Since She Heard The CRÜE"

 

LaunchPad,
Apparently unlike you I pay attention to what is going on.
If you have NOT seen BOTH parties on the news talking about the 15000 ballots then that is your problem. It has BEEN talked about by BOTH parties. It happens EVERYWHERE. I am sure it happened in YOUR State wherever you are. State Wide there was 143,000 ballots thrown out.


Then you questioned my honesty by questioning Buchanan's votes. Yet again, watch the news my friend. The last time Pat Buchanan ran in that county he did in fact receive 9000 votes. That was before he wrote his book that polarized some people but the facts are the facts.


next, How can you say he isnt a Bush hater?! He slammed President Bush constantly for being a perceived wimp. And he slammed Dubya throughout the campaign saying that he moved more to the center and had forgotten his base. When Bush failed to acknowledge Buchanan, Pat got worse. Did you not see some of the Buchanan ads this year?

You next tell me to take off my blinders. I suggest you do the same. YOU need to understand that whoever YOU Vote for doesnt mean others vote for the same guy. There ARE people in that county that VOTED for Buchanan, and WANTED to vote for him. To say none of you want to vote for the 'racist candidate' shows your ignorance to the facts.

Your last paragraph shows you are pro-Gore. That is fine, but dont pass yourself off as supporting neither. If you honestly cant see the bad happening in Florida, you need to wake up. If Gore loses Florida he should concede. Same with Bush. However, it is being said by GOREs people that if Bush wins the vote in Florida and the legal action goes nowhere, then they will ask for recounts in New Hampshire. If that happens you can bet Bush will ask for Oregon, Iowa, etc..

The election IS NOT tainted. Those STUPID people messed up their OWN ballots. I tried not calling them stupid for awhile, but by hearing people like you and your arguments I changed my mind. ANYONE that voted TWICE for President is STUPID. You cant vote for two candidates for ONE position. PERIOD. And are you really that naive to think that the 19,000 ballots discarded are the only ones in the nation?!

Gore instead has sent 93 lawyers to Florida. They are rustling up people as we speak to launch legal action on Florida. Please, Mr Smart Man, what good does that do? Your response 'Oh, it gets everyone's voice heard!' NO IT doesnt! What about the people in other states that messed up their ballot?

Go with the vote KNOWN, add the absentee and get a winner. End of story.



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"Her Box Started Buzzing Ever Since She Heard The CRÜE"

 

LaunchPad

Here is some proof. It took me all of two minutes to find it. If you want to find the rest you can try it yourself. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/Election_Main.html

look halfway down the page where it talks about the 14,872 votes in 1996 and the 143,000 total state wide this year. Also of note is the last part where they talk about Recounting other states.



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"Her Box Started Buzzing Ever Since She Heard The CRÜE"

 

Moonbus, i agree, not being able to read or comprehend a voting ballot correctly may not be stupid, but it's completley irresponsible.

A person proclaiming, after already voting that he or she was decieved by the text-setup is childish unaccountability. It's farsical. I don't care whether they are Republicans, democrats, gypsiocrats, or buddishmonians; the fact is some individuals are more aware than others, and sometimes people get use to having their head up their asses(pardon my language).

i admit i get caught in situations like that on occasions when my awarness isn't at a normal level, and certainly not at it's highest level(ya know thinkin about college football games, or the next big cold front, or that hot braud next to ya in line, or many other things on your mind other than the task at hand or that important moment, and it can lead to irrationability.

When something like that happens you take it like a man, and learn from it and evolve.

You do not hit rewind until you win.



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'Deeds, not words, shall speak me.'




[This message has been edited by mc mark (edited November 10, 2000).]

 

Well, dam, I can't get this image to work.

Oh well, it was pretty funny.

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'Deeds, not words, shall speak me.'

 

MoonBus,
What you fail to say when you attack me was that BOTH parties OKAYED this ballot. It was in the Paper it was mailed to them. They knew what it would look like.
No, I did not forget that. Just because one black man doesn't find the "N" word offending, it doesn't mean it's not offending for others. My point was that the ballot CAN be confusing and we should not just disregard that possiblility. How much mail do you throw out (or left them collecting dust on your table) a day without carefully reading them? Yes, they should read it thru carefully and understand them fully. That's not the argument here. The argument here is that don't just flat out say the ballot is not confusing because it is not confusing to you.

Gore has said today, that if Bush wins Florida he will recount New hampshire since Bush won that by 7,000 votes. You can bet if that happens Bush will recount Oregon, New MExico, etc.. It is an ugly situation to keep b****ing about the stupid, yes I said STUPID, voters that couldnt vote right.
Yes, it will be an ugly situation. I do not disagree that the recount should end at Florida.


[This message has been edited by MoonBus (edited November 10, 2000).]

 

Damn, thats hilarious, almost as funny as Clutch the Bear using the restroom on the Rockets court, while wearing Ralph Nader buttons.

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Thats it Clutch!

You da man!

And speaking of all these recounts. It was the state of Florida that (by law) had to have the recount because it was 1/2 of 1% close.

Now do all these other states have similar laws?

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'Deeds, not words, shall speak me.'

[This message has been edited by mc mark (edited November 10, 2000).]

 

Here is some proof. It took me all of two minutes to find it. If you want to find the rest you can try it yourself.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/Election_Main.html

DUDE,

This is *not* proof. Notice that most of the article is written as fact. However, the section dealing with these 14,800+ ballots (which, by the way, was 16,000 yesterday) is always prefaced with "Evans said...", referring to the Bush campaign.

A local congressman (according to another poster here) said the number was 7,000 or so. Now why do you believe one partisan source but not the other?

I'm not saying it's not true (I actually believe it is), but everytime it has been mentioned thus far on TV or newspaper, it's been prefaced with "Republican party officials claim..."


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Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him?

I didnt think so!!!!

 

Clutch, I got that one sent to me yesterday by a friend on the West Coast. Hilarious!

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I am the b*stard son of LHutz.

Huh?

Right!

 

The arrow thing is funny. The Bear poo thing is just wrong. I don't need to see that shiznit. If anyone has a picture of that, please do not post it. Thank you.



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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the last time Buchanan ran in that County he received 9000 votes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Okay, you defintely need to provide your source for this, because it is a patently false statement. Come on. Tell us where you pulled this little factoid from. "The DUDE's @$$ Herald"?

Launch Pad --

Is this good enough?

"Buchanan did, however, get more than 8,000 votes in Palm Beach County in the 1996 Republican primary, compared with about 3,000 in the election Tuesday, according to the Florida Division of Elections. "

 

Maybe they used the "butterfly" ballot then also ?

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"There are two players carrying the Rockets right now. Hakeem and Olajuwon." Isiah Thomas

 

Limbaugh had a story today about 74 2nd graders in Georgia, I believe, who were asked to pick their favorite Disney characters using the exact same butterfly ballot used in Palm Beach county. Results were verified by the teacher with each student after the voting and 74/74 did the voting correctly.

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