Francis_Rules: I respect your concern and opinion on the matter but this is a big world and not everyone is going to agree with you. I'm sure those who live in the Arab world would complain if "Israel" was exchanged for "Palestine" just as I'm sure most here would go nuts if "America" was inserted. Try to remember that these are just opinions. No one here is claiming to be own the right opinion on everything. We just say how we feel and move along. You don't have to like it. You don't even have to read it. But, it isn't grounds for closing a thread.
How is Israel the terrorists? The Palestinians keep sending in teenagers to blow themselves up, killing innocent civilians. They are the terrorists.
You don't live in Palestine or do you? You don't live in Manhattan You don't live in Afghanistan You don't live in China You don't live in America You don't live in Iraq Do you know what you're talking about?????????? I'm with you, starting to *HATE* Israel is not proper wording. Starting to hate some of the actions of those in power and control of the state of Israel and the Israeli army is probably better. I hate the violence, opression and immorality of non-peaceful leaders. He's not trying to manipulate people against Israel. He is only reacting to helicopter gunships, dead children and bulldozed houses and hospitals.
Does this seem a bit irrelevant? We cannot go back so why is it productive to talk about what 'should have been done?' I, for one, hope we are not in a position to decide an issue like this again. Why is it a backward concept for like minded people to form a community, a state being the modern version of such? Do you think all people should be homogenized into one large pool? Do you resent the Amish or the Mormon's for congregating in closed communities? So we're clear on your stance, are you saying the Jews have NO historical basis for their claim to what is now Israel? And as the non-Europeans in the area never recognized Palestinians right to self determination, what makes the formation of Israel uniquely oppressive to the Palestinians? I'm not sure why its logical for a country that was invaded, stomped and the invaders, taking land in the process of rolling back the invasion, to then give that land back. The right of return means there really is not a separation of Israeli and Palestinian land, and BTW in case you haven't noticed, there are many Palestinians who do NOT agree to the legitimacy of the Israeli state, not do they agree with the Saudi proposal. There is certainly ground to argue that the Israeli response has been harsh, but agreement on the return of the West Bank and Gaza would not stop the more radical elements of the Palestinian resistance, so WHY would the Israelis give up something when it still will not insure their security? For a solution to be reached the Arab world must stop the extremist from continuing to lash out, and force the extremists to accept a compromise. Then the onus would be 100% on Israel, and the forces for peace you write so glowingly about would certainly push that compromise through over the objections of the Israeli right.
In some religions, it is disrespectful NOT to call God "she." In Hinduism, there are elephant and monkey gods. It isn't disrespectful just because it is out of step with your religious beliefs.
No, hes not joking. Religious part: Yes, Israel is Gods chosen people. I do not believe we HAVE to back them up, but I DO BELIEVE that we should never go against them. Political part: It doesn't matter who's homeland it is. Emore is right ... they want the Jews dead ... they don't want the land. The point is Palisteins are terrorizing the CITIZENS. Every Palistein is a soldier in their army. If it were me in control, I would have bomb and bulldozed all those heartless bastards in a heartbeat. And for all those that feel for palestien, they want your head on the platter too! Regardless how you feel about them.
Do you actually KNOW any Palestinian's personally? I'd really like to know exactly how you determined that every man, woman and child Palestinian is a soldier in an army against the Jews and the Christians. I DO know some Palestinians and they aren't in the army, nor are they interested in fighting wars. Generalizations have absolutely no merit in any discussion.
Francis Rules. It is now about 24 hours since I vented by creating this thread last night. I haven’t read the posts following your yet, however I feel the need to respond to you. On a personal level. I don’t actually hate anyone. For you to say that it is obvious that I hate you (us) might imply that I hate people. (Not true) I have so much love for humanity that when politicians act in despicable ways towards people that I cringe, and I react, and I hate (I guess), but I hate the politicians, and the system, not the people. I truly care for many Jewish people, but that is irrelevant. Israel is a nation and Judaism is a religion. I have difficulties with the political actions of Israel, and its terrorist acts, not the people and their religious beliefs. If you read my original post you will actually notice that my anger is based on how other nations specifically my country, the USA treats Israel. I hate HYPOCRITES. Not so much based on actual anger on Israel and their actions. And FYI. I have two amazing friends. Both women, one is Lebanese, the other is Israeli. They have a, how do we say tumultuous relationship, but I love them both. I also talk politics with them both, and definitely feel capable of comment on the issues at hand. Additionally my Israeli friend understands why I feel what I do. In fact she doesn’t quite agree with her nations recent lean towards Sharon’s hawkish ways. I think we all as humans can agree war is bad. And like I said terrorism is bad as well. So when Israel sends fighter bomber aircraft into Lebanon to take out the power plants (an attack on the people, not the military) we all should be concerned. I know you will hate me for voicing my opinions, but if you hate me, you are the problem. There simply isn’t enough understanding in that part of the world right now. And I assure you I understand your view. I understand your feelings, but I don’t understand how we, the USA can endorse a government based on the death and torture of civilians purely for the purpose of genocide. I do however support the protection of the Israeli state, but I do not support any form of expansionism. PEACE
the Israelis DO want a good-faith deal. But can you give me any basis that it will be good-faith? Also, do not confuse Pro-Israel with Anti-Palestine. glynch, Re-read that statement. Think about how fair that is. Why should peace have conditions attached? "Land for peace"? This isn't land for "stopping the non-violent resistance/pacifism". It's land for "stop blowing up my Sbarro's pizza and my buses". It just doesn't make sense, especially when the peace can't be guaranteed. Sharon, and Israel have NO reason to believe the violence will stop from the Palestinian side. They would be getting nothing tangible in return, and would be cutting down the land they won in wars when they were under attack by their surrounding Arab nations. In war, you can lose/win land. Israel has no real obligation to give that land up. See ~1993. Israel, in an attempt to allow the Palestinians to show their maturity in the lands that they were given autonomous control, gave the Palestinians some 30,000 guns to allow them to have a police. Those same guns were used to murder Israelis and Israeli soldier. Based on things like that, and the over 150 homocide bomber over the past 18 months, how can Israel be assured peace? It's to the point where I don't think Arafat could stop the bombers if he wanted to. Israel is simply not going to give up the land when they can't even be reasonably assured of the only thing they'd be getting in return. They're giving up plenty of valuable resources (all the resources in the West Bank/Gaza strip would belong to the PLO). Time for everybody to role play: You are Israel's government. You make up about 1.5% of the Middle East. The rest is predominantly Arab. You have reason to believe that some Arab/Palestinians wish to eradicate Israel, based on public comments made. The Palestinians want land that you won that you did not cause, nor want to fight. They are targeting and bombing civilians and murdering them. For that land, all they are offering is peace. They have shown little-no ability to make good on that offer. Would you make that deal?
Thanks. You are so smart dude. Every single Palestinian is a terrorist. EVERY SINGLE ONE! Hey why ****ing stop there? ALL OF US MUSLIMS ARE ****ING TERRORISTS! ARENT WE? If it was up to me I would kill Jeff, Clutch, Rudy and your American ass. If it was up to me I would drop a nuclear bomb on NYC and kill a whole lotta Jews and Christians. I cant wait till the day Muslims rule this damned planet all by ourselves! Ignorance is bliss and a b****.
I used it for the first time last month and hadn't touched it since, but now it's almost full after reading this thread.
IMO, the that seems the most logical thing to do at this point. Think about it. If Palestinian state were created, the next carbombing would be considered an act of war by another nation. The next town bulldozed would also have the same ramification. I say give the Palestinians a place. Then let the cards fall where they fall. We'll see who is really for peace and who is not. Obviously, this alone will not create peace in the middle east, but I think it will force all of the countries who oppose Israel to show their true colors. Isn't this what all these countries claim they all want?
